Is there an actual difference in parts and options on the trail rated, or is it just marketing now

 

Id take coils over leafs on a jeap any day of the week.

 

I'm not sure, Tim. Four Wheeler announced that a few months ago. I can't remember the exactness of the article, but they said something along the lines that Daimler didn't feel that it was necessary to keep building the parts strong enough for the Rubicon trail when most people who drive SUVs don't four wheel that much. I think that the only people that not trail rating Jeeps anymore will effect are the people who were buying it.

 

The Landrover Freelander (the 4x4 you were referring to) isn't based at all on the Mazda Tribute/Ford Escape. It is a seperate design done by Land Rover well before Ford purchased Land Rover off BMW.
The vehicle doesn't have low range, and it does have Independant suspension.
But boy it goes well off road... (like a true Land Rover)
The first Land Rover that might not go so well off-road is the forth coming Range Stormer (an X5 competitor), but I will reserve judgement until that arrives - I have been told that it in fact does go quite well off-road, almost as good as a Range Rover, or a Discovery.

In the mean time, Land Rover is one of the only car companies in the world that is staying to its heritage - one of the few car companies that recognises HISTORY - and therefore if I ever had to buy a 4x4 wagon, I would buy a Land Rover - not because they are the best vehicles, but I appreciate what they stand for.

 

The current 2005 Consumer Reports Buying Guide has a black X (meaning below average) for every year for the Grand Cherokee from 1996 through 2003 (the last full year for data). The trouble areas are transmission, electrical, brakes and body integrity. Over time they also seem to have worse than average problems with the A/C and power equipment, according to these consumer generated surveys.

Has Chrysler suddenly done something different which would make one more confident in purchasing this model?

One of my business partners has had the entire brakes (rotors, pads, calipers) replaced three times, and the A/C compressor twice on his four year old GC and will never buy another one.

At least the engine has been reliable and the Hemi will probably turn out to be reliable too. But with so many problems for so long, I question whether Chrysler can suddenly turn this totally around.

 

Daimler has claimed to be bringing both chrysler and jeep up to mercedes quality levels. Not that mercedes has been doing all that well.

 

Yeah, that's what Jeep allows that it means, but let's face it, I'm not even sure that a `Rubicon` Jeep could actually make it through the entire Rubicon Trail, I know it may make some passes in it, but my daughter's PowerWheels Jeep can make some parts of it. Trail Rated is a marketing ploy, implying that unless you have a Jeep, you can't make it off-road, and that's simply not the case. Most Jeeps aren't even as capable as they let on, I'd love to see a new Liberty in the Rubicon getting tore all to pieces.

 

Wow, the Grand goes fast. I'm impressed -rolls eyes- I am not a fan of the new Jeep brand, I have lost respect for them when they came out with the new Liberty, and now they are ruining themselves even more with the new Grand Cherokee. The only thing they have going for them is the Wrangler and Wrangler Unlimited. Hummer has been humilitating them, stock-for-stock. And with the new Hummer H3 with a manual transmission, and 32 or 33" tires STOCK, Jeep is a joke (Wrangler excluded.) There are plenty of other fast, luxury SUVs out there that people would rather buy. It's funny how Hummer keeps stepping forward, while Jeep (besides the Wrangler) has been stepping backwards. I'm speaking in an off-road context, of course. I'd have to say that the H3 is now my favorite "new" off-roader currently being offered by any manufacturer, partly because of the manual tranny, 32/33" tires, and rear locker, but mainly because of its smaller SIZE. Jeep should be sweating. The man who originally made all Jeeps Rubicon-ready is now working for GM, and I think this is why GM keeps the Hummer brand off-roadable.

BTW, I am a Jeep guy and own a '74 Cherokee (see avatar) - and I am not averse to the Hummer brand or their vehicles (just most of their drivers!)

 

Funny you should mention that, cause Fourwheeler magazine took it out on the trail themselves along with the old Cherokee next to it.
http://www.fourwheeler.com/roadtests/16598/

 

Now I'm not sure if this post is serious or not. First off, Jeep is not losing any ground to Hummer. Hummers are not built for off-road, even though there commercials may have you thinking so. The H1 is the only true off road Hummer. The H2 is built off of the Tahoe truck and does horrible off road. The new H3 is built off of the Colorado/Canyon truck and if you'd read up on those trucks, they have even less of a payload and towing rating than the old S10/Sonoma trucks because GM went with a softer suspension setup. Lastly, Jeeps are all built off of their own platforms. The new Grand Cherokee I believe is the first to ever use another platform, which is the Durango-I'm not even sure if this is true, but I heard Jeep was coming out with something built off of this, so I may be wrong. BUT any Jeep is still going to do better in the simple fact that they are much smaller vehicles than ANY Hummer,and can make it further into trails. Check out the link I posted above about how well the Liberty does in the Rubicon by fourwheeler. Also, when GM was designing the new H3, they took a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon for comparison and could never keep up with it, it kept getting hung up and stuck everywhere the Jeep was able to go. GM keeping Hummer off roadable, give me a break.

 

Right, right, and like I said, I don't doubt that it can do SOME parts of the Rubicon, but I have seen that place, and I have seen several parts that vehicles with 49 inch tires can't get through, so I am definitely sure that a stock Jeep, ANY stock Jeep, can't make it through the whole thing.

 

My point of showing you that article is that "trail rated" or the Jeep commercials telling you the Jeep can go off road, isn't a marketing ploy. Jeep is one of the last SUV brands that can actually be taken off road and do very well in stock condition.

 

BigBlueBronco43...let's keep this simple. You should know the dimensions of the H3, are you saying that the new Grand Cherokee performs better off-road? I was not comparing the Wrangler to any Hummer, I think to do that is foolish since they aren't anywhere near the same class. I specifically stated that I was excluding the Wrangler to keep people like you from comparing it to any Hummer, but alas, here we are. From what I've seen in Anza Borrego, the H2s are not bad for what they are off-road, but they're way too big in my opinion. Would you say that my stock Expedition could out-wheel an H2? As for the H3, what does payload and towing capacity have to do with a general purpose off-roader's off-road performance? Have you driven a TJ for 5 hours on the freeway to an off-roading spot? And, one more question...does "off-roadable" mean rockcrawling only to you? Also, keep in mind we're talking about stock vehicles here. I could kill any Hummer in my Jeep, unless I need to drive directly over something 16" high.

 

In your first post you did say excluding the wrangler, fine. The Liberty would still beat the H2 and H3 in any type of off road situation. The H3 coming from the Canyon/Colorado and what I was saying about the suspension is that it is designed to be more carlike, and be better for on road driving. Hence why the H3 will not do well off road. The frame rails of both H2 and H3 hang way too low to allow any ground clearance, and they both suffer from weak front suspensions. Lastly, the H3's biggest engine is an inline 5 with 220hp. The Cherokee lost some of its off road ability and has gone mainstream like the Explorer and others, but is still very capable when compared to other SUV's, probably still the most capable except for Land rover. BTW- I've owned a 2" suspension/2" body lifted 89 Wrangler w/31's, sold for an 88 Wrangler that I lifted 4.5" suspension w/33's and 4.11's, and my mother has owned a 2000 Cherokee and currently owns a Liberty. My Wranglers were my daily drivers and I drove them on a regular basis on 4 hour drives from Mass to Maine (where my girlfriend lives) and 2 1/2 hour drives from Mass to NH where I attended school. A TJ is a caddy to me. I've wheeled every Jeep I and my mother owned, and the Liberty does just as well as her Cherokee did.

 

My Last 88 Jeep Before:



And After: