Can you dump Freeze 12 in on top of R12? Do they have the same type oil?

 

The best thing to do with an R-12 system of course is to put R-12 back in, but we all know how expensive that stuff is getting. Also, since R-134 has a much lower heat capacity than R-12, the conversions don't work unless you change over pretty much the whole sytem.

When I needed to top of the R-12 in my 92 F250, I used a product called DuraCool. I bought some R-12 to R-134 adaptors, and then used my R-134 gauges to top it off. The DuraCool was completely compatible with the R-12 and after more than a year, it is still blowing nice and cold with no problems to report. I think that the Freeze 12 is a similar product. Just make sure that they guarantee that it will be completely compatible with R-12.

Finally, you need to keep in mind that adding anything to an R-12 system that is not R-12, without properly removing all of the R-12 is actually illegal. In the future, if someone tried to vacate the system in the proper manner, it could actually contaminate their supply.

 

and then the Earth would implode
(sorry, couldn't help myself. Some of the regulations are understandable, but good grief.)

 

Ahh... come on now ubermich, the earth really wouldn't implode. You're exagerating just a little don't ya think?

Like I said, I contaminated my own R-12 with DuraCool, I just thought I would be a responsible poster and make sure he knows that anyone that tries to vacate it the proper way will contaminate their whole supply. I promise, that would not make them happy.

No offense taken though. I'm glad this site doesn't take itself completely serious.

 

By the way, what do they have to do if their supply is contaminated? Would they know if it was?

Oh yeah, and to get back OT, the shop down the street from me offers freeze-12 in place of r-12 (they vacate the same systems...)

 

I am unsure what you mean by their 'supply'. If they evacuate the old R12 would it not go into a recovery tank and not a supply tank??
Thanks

And do you know if Freeze 12 has mineral oil in it like R12 does, or 'poly' oil like 134 does?
I hear that the oil issue is major for compatibility.

 

My recovery machine will hold and allow reuse of R12 so I would be very unhappy if it was allowed to get contaminated. All R12 systems are hooked up to an analysiser before my machine sees it. All those that don't pass are sent to a shop with a dedicated junk recycling tank.

 

You can comingle R134 and 502 in a R12 system, but for the reasons noted it's not desireable.

 

Where did you manage to find the DuraCool? I've been looking for it, but nobody around here seems to have it.

 

BTW, its illegal to remove refrigerant from one owner and put into another owners equipment. I.E. you can't take r12 out of Mr. jones' car and put into Mr. Smith's. So it wouldn't matter if its contaminated.

 

I have the Duracool trick as well. Works great and blows colder than it ever did before. Duracool can be purchased at UAP/NAPA in Canada

 

Nitro said what I was getting at. If the supply and or recovery tanks have anything but pure R-12 in them, they are considered hazardous waste, and the owner of said tanks will have to pay extra to appropriately dispose of them.

I have a good friend who is a SAE liscensed mechanic and HVAC technician, and someone did this to him. It cost him a lot to remedy the problem and properly dispose of the contaminated fluid. The problem is that if he didn't pay the big bucks to dispose of it properly, he could lose his liscense.

My understanding is that if the R-12 is properly recovered and analyzed, it can be reused, but if it is at all contaminated it cannot legally be reused.

I am not saying that you shouldn't use the products talked about, especially since I personally have, but that you need to make sure they don't end up in an honest mechanics tanks such as my friend's, or Nitro's.

I got my DuraCool from:
http://www.foxtoolsupply.com/
They were great to work with, and knew the product very well.

They shipped it directly to me, and it was very inexpensive.

You can read about DuraCool at:
http://www.duracool.com/
http://www.duracoolusa.com/

Like I said, I'm 100% satisfied.

 

PLEASE READ

F250 freak: I have done a few r-134 conversions (one on a personal vehicle-85 F150) and didn't do anything but swap out o-rings(which needed replacing anyway) ,valve, and fittings. Only a small difference in performance, and the owners never complained. The f150 hasn't been touched in the 5 years since(still in family). The other cars are long gone, but never had any A/c problems afterwards. At the time it was cheaper to buy all the equipment, O-ring kit and the R-134 then just to buy R12. I have heard of some complaints though, not saying your wrong.

DURACOOL IS ILLEGAL TO USE IN AUTOMOBIOLES! EPA quote:

"The Agency has determined that OZ-12 and HC-12a (duracool) are unacceptable for use in motor vehicle air-conditioners because of unanswered flammability concerns. It is illegal to use them as a refrigerant in vehicles."

Read more on this page:http://www.epa.gov/reg3artd/ozonelayer/coolcust.htm

duracool somewhat mentions this on their site and says that it's OK if you convert to R134 first, the EPA's page say's no such thing, that I could find. You will however find this:

"Consumers need to beware of false claims about alternative refrigerants. They should purchase only alternatives that have been listed as acceptable by EPA based on health and safety considerations. At present, R-134a is the only alternative refrigerant that has been fully tested and recommended by vehicle manufacturers. (R-134a contains no chlorine and therefore does not harm the ozone layer.)"

Not saying I wouldn't use it, but beware. OK, enough typing for me...

 

Above referenced site:
Last updated on Tuesday, April 22nd, 2003

Over a year ago. Perhaps in the interim, something has changed?

 

tdister is right. DuraCool is illegal according to the EPA. The problem with DuraCool is that it is a hydrocarbon much like propane or methane. There is a (slight) possibility that it could cause a fire if your system has a leak, or if you are in a major wreck. The United States has chosen to make it illegal until sufficient evidence is provided that flammability is not a risk. Hydrocarbons have been used for years as refrigerants in other countries without any problems that I am aware of, but please consider the risk!!! Also, once again, it is illegal to mix refrigerants, and if you will reference my posts above, you will see that I have made no claims of legality, I simply provided my personal experience with it.

I tend to shy away from the R-134 conversions just due to my personal experience with them. We had a reputable shop convert a 1990 Chebby K-3500 for us, and it was pathetic. I have to say that this was one of the best shops in town, that has done a lot of very good work for us, but they told us that, without replacing most of the major components (compressor, condenser, expansion tube, etc) they couldn't do any better. Some R-12 systems have a larger safety factor than others making them more compatible with R-134, which has a much lower heat capacity.

My system was not totally depleted, so I just wanted something to top it off. One can of DuraCool had it blowing colder than ever.