I come from a background of ford 300s. I appreciate low rpm horsepower more than anything else. The driveability is great. Not super fast but really economical. They last forever and get great mileage. Its torque is similar to the 302. Problem is that inlines are big blocks and take up too much space. The 300 while a small engine had 50 ci per cylinder. This is just shy of the displacement per cylinder of a 444e. Too bad a medium duty 6 cant fit in the engine bay.
Just give me 1000lb ft at 2000 rpm and I will be a happy man.
The higher rpm statement was purely for racing comparisons. It lets you hold the gear longer. Each gear is called a multiplier. It mulitiplies torque. The more torque at the wheels the faster you accelerate. The longer you hold the multiplier the faster you will go. 3300 is better than 2900 for racing. It is compounded in each gear. So one truck length going to second. 2 and a half going to third and 5 by the time your in fourth. If you could bang it out at 10000 rpms. Even better. If your racing. If your towing the opposite is true. Other than passing you dont need all that high rpm stuff.

 

The PSD has a higher comperssion ratio.

 

I still don't get what you are saying. We have a Mustang Pro drag car that runs 6.40 1/4 miles at 220. It has a 5 speed liberty transmission that is air shifted from a trigger on the tach becaust the shifts come so fast the normal human can't row it. If what you are saying is correct we would run quicker with a 3 speed which is simply not true. We have run a Powerglide in the past but any automatic robs some horsepower to run the pump. The 5 speed is quicker
I had a 300 six in a 1/2 ton that I drove for 150K miles. My son has it now. It's still a good truck with 230K miles on it(2nd engine). Parts are so cheap for this truck that it is cheaper to rebuild it than replace it.

 

I have 550 which is a lot for an empty truck!

 

Logical Heritic, how many posts are you going to make in this thread? I think 33 posts in one morning is a bit excessive. Try putting all your information in one post rather than quoting each individual person and making a rebuttal that has already been answered in this thread. ALL of these questions have already been answered. Please re-read the entire thread. Do you own a Ford? Are you only trying to stir things up here? If you only want to stir up trouble find another website to frequent. Tests have proven again and again that the PSD outperforms the Cummins in the real world (not the factory flywheel comparison) in BOTH auto and manual transmission form.

 

You are correct, but in the context of my quote that you were resonding to here, I said "a horsepower is a horsepower and it's better to have it a lower rpm" or some such thing.... anyway, I was more talking about work performance... but for racing, sure higher rpm for the same horsepower is great, because that means you have more torque at peak power... but I think we're both on the same wavelength.

By the way, I appreciate your posts and the logic behind them. I suspect that you know what's going on...

 

That figures that you would agree. Just out of curiosity, have you ever driven trucks with the engines in question? Have you ever owned one? A lot of the posts here are from first hand experience with ownership and a lot of them are based on printed literature.

 

John, I think they just don't get it. It's a matter of perspective. Until you've owned and driven a PSD day in and day out. Outrun Dodges and Chevys both loaded and unloaded, up hill and down hill, on pavement and dirt, hot and cold weather they will never get it. We base our knowledge and opinions on our perspective. These guys are just ignorant, searching for answers. Don't hold it against them.

This is why more PSDs are sold every month than the month before. New people try the PSD and buy one every month and people that already have PSDs buy new ones. I figure everyone will own one sooner or later.

 

Why? He's an intelligent, articulate individual. Nobody else seemed to be welcoming that, and maybe there's something new to be heard by letting someone else enter the dialog. Maybe not too, but I'm not going to tell anyone to jump off a cliff....

How much disrespect have I shown you in this thread? I don't recall any. Just because I said something that you didn't agree with, does not mean that I am ignorant, but even if it does, common courtesy says that you don't call another person ignorant.... but thanks. Ironically, you saying "searching for answers" makes me think of Jesus, who basically taught that we should all treat each other with respect and dignity. Not saying that I'm perfect at that, but it can't hurt to try.

I have not driven a 6.0 PSD, I won't lie. I have a bit of experience with Cummins engines, which instilled in my mind a long time ago that they are torque monsters. I have driven a 7.3 PSD equipped truck quite a bit, and it's a great machine.

I have never once in this thread said that the 6.0 isn't a great engine, or that the 6.0 equipped truck isn't a great truck, or that it isn't the fastest (with an auto anyway). In fact, due to being careful to avoid offending my fellow ford owners, in about half of my posts, after telling it like I see it, I waste FTE's bandwidth with a disclaimer saying the super duty is a great overall package, just to avoid hard feelings.

This thread was asking about the engine, and between the original question, and trying to correct random misinformation that I've seen, I've wound up saying a lot of good things about the cummins. Sorry if that bothers you. In my mind, which maybe is not as wise and enlightened as some other members', the inline six is, in fact, an inherently superior engine design. I know that's just an opinion, but in articulating that opinion, I've tried to exlain the facts that led me to it. Is there any more that one can ask? Reviewing the facts and forming an opinion based on that?

We're basically just bench-racing and this is all in fun guys. I think we could all lighten up a bit.

For the record, I have NEVER owned a Dodge truck. I have a Dodge car, and it's a POS. I'm going to try and avoid ever owning a Chrysler corp (excuse me, daimlerchrysler) vehicle again. If anything, my bias is toward Ford, but I still try to tell the facts the way I see them. I'm a gearhead, a talker and a writer. What do you expect?

 

I'm sorry you got offended. Ignorance is not a fault. Ignorance is a lack of information. I was trying to say that if you had the experience of owning and driving a 6.0 you would have a different perspective.
8 months ago, I drove a 4.0 V-6 Ranger. I thought it was pretty quick. I have a 98 Mustang Convertible. I had until recently the Mustang on my Avatar that runs the 1/4 in 8.90 @160. Even with this perspective I thought the Ranger was quick.
I was surprised the first time I drove the 6.0. I was surprised at the smooth delivery of power and torque. I was surprised how quiet the truck is inside.
A month later I bought a Predator. I was STUNNED at the power increase. It provided 250 Ft Lb of torque increase. I had no idea. I was ignorant about the truck and ignorant about the Predator.
Ignorance is not a fault.

By the way, I don't care what you drive. I just thought johnsdiesel was being a little hard on you guys because he had a different perspective than you.

 

The reason I said that is because the two of you are obviously very anti-PSD. All the arguments both of you have made have been discussed time and time again in this thread and others. What really gets to me is that some of the most passionate posters in this forum have never even driven a diesel truck, let alone owned one. I currently own a diesel truck and have also driven all 3 of the current offerings from the big 3 as well as older model diesel trucks. My posts are based on real world experience, not some myth passed down from generation to generation in the Cummins club.

 

Actually, diesel does have 25-30% more energy per molecule than gas, but it pnlu burns at about 40% of it's potential. When mixed with propane, it burns between 80 and 90% of it's potential, so without the propane, I'd say it is getting, like you said, about 5% more energy than gas. Anyway, I have to disagree with what you said about low-revving and high-revving diesels. Maybe in some diesel market, where the engines are really huge, this is true. So far, the higher-revving PSD has outlasted the lower-revving diesel (Cummins). 98% of all PSDs are still on the road. If they were going to be affected by high-revving, they would have been affected by now. The fact that the Cummins revs lower and is balanced better and is an inline hasn't made any difference at all, actually, when looking at the real world failure rates (please post one for Cummins in Dodge trucks if you have one, I can't seem to find it), it seems that the contrary is true. It is true up to this point that the higher-revving V-block has been more durable than the lower-revving I6. Either that, or Cummins can't even make an inline work.

 

Again, if 98% of PSDs are on the road, then their rods aren't failing, or at least not enough to be a factor in the real world. If only 2% of the millions sold are failing, odds, are, the rods in your engine are going to be just fine. People have upgraded their PSDs with propane and all sorts of things, doesn't change the fact that 98% of them are still on the road. I fail to see where they're tearing up, not working or not durable. No other engine can make that claim in the market that we're debating about. On paper, there are plenty of reasons why the Cummins should be better, it's an inline, it's simpler, it's balanced better, it revvs lower, but still, 98% of the PSDs ever sold are still on the road, and this is not true for the Cummins. So, evidently, what's on paper doesn't really matter, because it doesn't work that way in the real world.

 

Go get 'em FordLariat!

 

The Cummins engines may be ok but the trucks they sit in won't last 100K miles without wiring the doors shut with barb wire and welding braces between the fenders to keep them on. Dodges literally fall apart. Chevys accessories won't last 40,000 miles. My son an engineer fo an unnamed company says that GM truck are engineered to fall apart after the warranty to keep the dealer shops busy.