This is a really beautiful truck, and it's been catching my eye alot lately - so much so, that I've been going out of my way to get as many spec's on it as I possibly can.

I'm going to make a positive case for this truck as best I can without seeming overly biased against other brands in comparision - it's hard though because I really like what I've seen.

It's too bad that I can't really post this topic elsewhere, where more eyes will see it so I can get a few more NON inflamatory opinions on it (whether positive or not), and where I'm less likely to be seen as some troll looking to dis Ford-(I am a 3 time Ford owner afterall guys).

Mind you, much of what I'm about to post is pure subjective opinion - based on my growing fondness with this truck, but some of it is also undisputable fact as well.

Things I like about the GMC Sierra.

1.) LOOKS. Very smooth and refined looking truck, in comparision Ford's SuperDuty series is starting to look more and more like an attempt to convey a tough look through building excessive sheet metal components bigger than they really need to be. While I have a healthy respect for Dodge's engineering and their engines, I'm not yet sold on the overly large grill section change in 03'. Chevrolet (while being the same truck underneath) is the least appealing of all - it looks like it's mad at someone, I'd say it looks good as a dually in black, but that's about the only tolerable version to me. All three of these trucks "look" tougher than the GMC does, but theres something about the GMC's understated no nonsense look that just really appeals to me.

2.) STANCE. The 2wd model is the same height as the 4x4 - 76" in height. Ford SD250 2wd sits at 74" and the Ram 2500 2wd is sitting at 73" - of the big three full sized 2wd trucks- the GM's are the only ones that seem to have a little clearance under the front wheel well. The torsion bar suspension can also be cranked four turns for an extra inch of lift with no adverse affect on driveline or suspension components with the exception of requiring a re alignment afterwards.

3.) GMT800 FRAME. I'm not going to belittle the SuperDuty or Ram frames over this, their frames are plenty strong, but I will say the only other frame that seems to compare with this one in dimensions is the SD 450/550 chassis.
It is a very impressive frame- at least to look at, and I'm not going to go into the whole hydroformed thing, or the tubular cross members, or the 40,000psi - thats not what impresses me most...it's that 8 3/4" center section - which runs all the way from the front bumper to the rear bumper. And in addition to this, the 3500 Chassis cab has a a mid center section of, - get this - 14 inches!.....this dosent seem like the sort of thing that a company who is concerned only with profit without thought to quality would bother to do. I truly believe that with 19" rims, F range tires, an extra leaf in the rear, and a front axle upgrade that this truck would be every bit equal to an F550 -esp since it already comes with a 13,500lb 11.5" rear axle.

The frame is so massive, and the Allison transmission is so big, that it does hang down pretty good. This should not be a problem in most circumstances though since I'm not aware of too many full sized trucks which seriously go rock climbing - not even stock Ford 4x4's.


4.)ENGINES. I have seen and heard the debates, I still like OHV engines personally. The only OHC engine that has ever interested me is the V10....period. And that is due only to the good torque/HP numbers it achieves for it's relatively moderate displacement- I really hav'ent been shown anything that makes me think that OHC engines are anymore practical, or efficient in the real world than OHV engines are, when it comes to simple maintenance though, I could see spending a whole day changing sparkplugs in some OHC designs- including the V10. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I doubt it.

8100 V8, most see it as an underachiever- I see a sleeping giant, that will last a long time if left undisturbed - with aluminum heads,steel shaft, and easy programming on GM's part to let it's natural potential come out- your looking at well over 600 ftlbs - at moderate RPM's.

6000 V8. An engine that has the best of both worlds.

5.4L 2 valve (SD version) Idle = 295 ftlb
6.0L 2 valve ----------------Idle = 290 ftlb

5.4L 2valve -------- 2000 RPM = 330 ftlb
6.0L 2valve -------- 2000 RPM = 325 ftlb

5.4L 2valve -------- 2500 RPM = 350 ftlb(max torque)
6.0L 2valve -------- 2500 RPM = 340 ftlb

5.4L 2valve -------- 4000 RPM = 260 ftlb
6.0L 2valve -------- 4000 RPM = 360 ftlb

6.0L ----------------- 5000 RPM = 370 ftlb

Top HP, 5.4L = 260 @ 4000.......6.0L = 325 @ 5600

Duramax diesel. Apparantely aluminum heads can work with a diesel- though it will probably be awhile before that answer is set in stone. For right now it gets the number two spot (Cummins will always be number one) it's been alot more reliable than the "new" 6.0L has been over the last year, and it has more torque as well. I would take a Cummins anyday over it and a VT365 International as well, but I would not spend money on the PSD version for at least another year-who can say what else may go wrong with it?


5.) TRANSMISSIONS.

NV4500. Largest gears in any pickup transmission from the last 14 years to date. Has been used in bombed Cummins motors with no more than a clutch upgrade for years without problems.
Based on the NP435 4 speed gearbox.

ZFS-6-650 Very large transmission with the highest torque capacity of any transmission put into a pickup truck to date. The GM version has been reworked to be more user friendly, and does not require a cooler as it uses a light synthetic gear oil.

Allison 1000. I personally don't care for automatic transmissions, but I would trust this one. It is a serious looking auto. I saw the Torqueshift and I'm sorry to say - it is NOT as impressive to me.
I've also heard it is nothing more than an upgraded 4R100. Of course I do not have any experience with either, and probably never will, so I'll go out on a limb and assume the Torqueshift works as well and is as reliable as the Allison- but it definately does not look the part. Dodge, from what I hear does not have a comparable auto tranny to either of them - maybe they should contact ZF for the job? I've seen some ZF auto's that make the Allison look ......small.

6.) SUSPENSION.

GM's SLA axle up front is truly massive as far as things like A arms and CV joints go- handling is much more responsive than TIB. Camber and caster are true. Tires last longer without rotation, and road feel is second to none. While Ford's swing axle is slightly stronger than independent SLA, the use of torsion bars like the ones used in 4x4 models, gives a higher GAWR than the coils used in the Ford and Dodge. Only the highest capacity leaf springs have a higher rating.


Well, I'm done playing devil's advocate. Theres my list of nice things to say about GM. There are things I'm not crazy about for sure- like quadrasteer, or the possibly upcoming displacement on demand for instance. I also don't like any of their ugly concept trucks. I do not like how GM treated and alienated many customers over the CSK issue they had, but at least that chapter is over. Certainly there are things I would prefer Ford for- like the Dana 60 solid front axle 4x4's for plowing snow, rock climbing(which I'd never do in a new truck anyway) or mudding, etc - also I like the V10 engine very much. I like Dodge for these same applications. All are good looking trucks - with the end toss up going between the SD and the GMC having a slight edge - next would be the Dodge, followed by Chevrolet in dead last. Many of these things are subjective- for instance I mentioned how I like the SLA so much for it's handling qualities and torsion bars for having more strength than coils do, but there are times when I see the sheer massiveness of TIB along with old school coils and I think "What else do you want?" So I definately do see the other view as well....it's all a matter of seeing the cup as half empty or half full.

Go ahead and shoot me up - it won't change a thing guys....

If someone does disagree on any and all points I'd be glad to at least hear why- other than "GM is junk"....lol.

 

In my opinion, there's not much wrong with the Sierra/Silverado except the gas engine selection. My opinion, in a nutshell, is that the 6.0L is too small and the 8.1L is too big and inefficent.

On the other hand, Ford's 6.8L V10 with it's 400lb-ft at 1900rpm is just right for me. Tows great and makes a good daily driver while getting better mpg than the 8.1L and about the same mpg as the 6.0L.

I also like Superduties due the the higher ride & frame/body clearance. If you want a negative for the Sierra, that would be a big one in my book. A relative of mine has a new 04 Sierra 1500 5.3L and I do like the dash/guages alot. It's alot more modern-looking inside than the Superduties.

 

Chevy makes a decent truck. Theres nothing much wrong with them at all to me. They feel like a glorifyed car. But, since i do A LOT of towing with my truck, i opt to get a Ford. The Chevy just doesn't feel like it can with stand towing 20,000 pounds of trailer behind it. While in my Superduty, you drop that kind of weight on it and it hardly noticeable. I was with a friend and we towed his 24 foot Camper up to the Lake one weekend with his 2002 Chevy 2500 HD. The truck did alright, but it really seemed to struggle with the weight, it made the truck feel tippy and vulnerable to the trailer. The engine did fine, but the actual truck suspension and frame seemed to disagree with the trailer. I definetly don't get that feeling when towing with my Superduty. I always feel like im in control with that truck. And to me, thats very important.

As far as engines, most trucks comes with more then adequate horsepower and torque nowadays then any guy could possibly need. (especialy diesels)

Interior. Depends what you do with your truck. I look at the Ford and think "Hmm this is a Simple, easy to clean, good looking interior. " Then i look at the Chevy's "Very nice looking, but hard to clean, and almost 'confusing' looking." The gauges on the Chevy's are superior, but the Fords still do the job just fine. I like the Ford interior especially for the cleaning aspect. I like to keep my vehicles clean, but they can get real dirty fast, with what i do with them. It looks like i could spend days cleaning the Chevy's and still not get into all them cracks...

Looks. I think this is hands down, ford wins. I love the look of the Superdutys, very macho and clean cut looking. The Chevy's I can't say they look bad, but not my cup o' tea. They look almost "wussy" like to me, too car like of lines.

Transmission's. I think both the torque shift and the Allison are about equal. They have all the same features, and although the Torqueshift hasn't had much time to prove itself, i think its gonna hold up just fine. I drove a 2003 with the torque, shifted smoothly every time, and not once did i disagree with what it was doing. (Unlike a dodge transimssion)

Suspension. For my application, i would take nothing but a solid front axle. My truck sees a lot of 4x4 and that solid front, you can't beat it.

Overall the Ford suites my needs jsut perfect, the Chevy, although a good truck, just is not what i look for in a truck. Suggestion for Chebby: Ditch the IFS.

IMO

 

Personally, I would not buy, or own ANYTHING made by GM!!!

Why post something like that on this forum?? I don't think anybody on here is really interested on how much you like GMC pickups!!!

 

Why post something like that on this forum?? I don't think anybody on here is really interested on how much you like GMC pickups!!!
____________________________________

This is the Ford vs competition forum isint it? Why bother posting a reply with absolutely no constructive criticism such as this one?
I'd like to know why you do not like them - your entitled to your opinion - so lets hear it.

 

Ok, no manufacturer in history has had the engineering blunders that GM has:

1) The Vega all aluminum 4 banger
2) Trying to make a gasoline engine a diesel
3) The Cadillac 8-6-4

These are just a few!!!

A friend bought a new chevy pickup a few
years ago, and we were looking at it under the hood. There was
a wiring harness on the driver's side back towards the firewall.
Instead of making the harness 3 inches longer, and rerouting it,
they ran it next to the exhaust manifold, and wrapped insulation
around it!!!

Now, when you throw a manufacturing process full of defects, on top of poor engineering.......well, this is why I WILL NOT buy a
GM product!!!

 

As sinister does. that Ford is not a god in the truck market.
There are alot of good vehicles out there. It seems that when you have been on this forum for a while, you come to respect the knowledge of certain individuals who obviously know their trucks, and state facts. You like to listen to them and their opinions because they obviously know their stuff. They dont say "Gm is junk, or ford is junk, or dodge is junk" and leave it at that.
I quickly disregard most posts that start out twith " my brother works for a chevy dealer and is always busy" or " My neighbor has had 3 new engines in his chevy in 20,000 miles" Or my favorite, " I own a 2004 duramax, a 2004 cummins, and a 2004 powerstroke, and the Power stroke is the only one I'll drive".

I personally agree with Sinister, Think the Gm is a good truck, not a thing wrong with it. and its obviously had its homework done on it.
I have not reserached it as much as he has, but it sure has beefy components according to the post.
All and all A solid truck.

Ron

00 Excursion Limited 4x4 V-10

 

Sinister-

Nice post. I too, agree that GM makes a good truck, for my dad drives Suburbans. Very reliable trucks! I have had to pull him out of a few muddy fields w/ my F150 though! He never learns!

I will agree that the Chevy's are pretty ugly. But one truck that ALWAYS seems to catch my eye is the GMC Sierra DENALI pickup. That is one sharp looking truck.

Those power #'s to me show that the ford does pretty well in low-end torque compared to the 6.0L. Either truck will be a good vehicle though!

Mike

 

I think that GMCs are great looking pickups and that they have the best gas engines out there. I particularly lik the 496 ci big block. It sounds better than a V10 and does nearly as well on fuel. I do think that the Hemi and 3V 5.4 are very competitive with the 6.0, but none are bad engines. I also think that GM makes the best automatic transmissions.

I do not like the IFS setup, especially under the 3/4 and 1 ton pickups. It holds up pretty well, but a solid axle is stronger and more simple.

 

The idea of having a big-block in a truck again is interesting. I personally don't think the chevies are that ugly. Just my .02

 

I've been reading up on a couple of the new alternative fuel engines that GM is putting in their trucks and I've got to give them credit for doing something nobody else is. The 6.0 can run on either gas or compressed natural gas. The 5.3 comes with an option to run up to 85% ethanol/15% gasoline. And, GM is offering a hybrid system to fleet and commercial customers (hopefully they'll make this available to the general public) that will improve mileage by 10-15% while greatly reducing emissions. The hybrid truck can also act as a portable generator, to run power tools while in park.

Call me a tree-hugging hippie, but I think stuff like this, especially in the truck market (where efficiency usually comes second) is great. I gotta give huge credit to GM for at least trying to market this technology.

 

Okay guys, having owned pickups and SUV's for over the last 30 years with vast majority being Ford, I presently own a '96 Big Bronco that is the cat's meow (and will be passed on my soon to be 16 year old son), a '93 Wrangler tricked out (with a FORD 8.8 rear axle) and one of those 'new GMC Sierras'.... I hate to say that most of the positive posts are quite accurate and if my local idiot Ford salesman hadn't decided, during a test ride, that he wanted to 'drag race' a competitor GMC salesman and his unsuspected customer, I would be driving a new Ford. While we lurched out ahead of the GMC in the first few hudred feet, the GMC soon slipped right past us and was gone, no matter how hard the salseman kept stomping on the gas pedal....
Perhaps next year I will upgrade to the 8.1 or Duramax... or perhaps by then the will have the Avalanche (without it's Darth Vader plastic and looks like a pickup again) with a Duramax...

 

I wouldn't base my truck buying decision on speed. Speed is irrelevant to pulling or truck like capabilities.

 

Yup, Slow and Steady... that is what we all say when off road rock crawling in our Jeeps, but some of us actually use our trucks to pull our boats and other toys down the highway... at highway speed. Perhaps it is due to a better HP/weight ratio?

 

My truck has never had a hard time pulling boats and stuff down the road at above the speed limit, and its only got a little over 250hp.