It is true ATF is a light weight high detergent oil. In addition, ATF is used as a lubricant in transmissions. But, in an engine I think the situation is a little different. I am sure as a quick flush ATF may work pretty good. I have not tried it personally. But, ATF is not designed to clean an environment that is full of crud from neglect. Also, ATF at temps past 212 can contribute to the carbon buildup instead of clean. ATF is sensitive to heat and breaks down at higher temps. In an engine with oil temps ranging much higher and temps in certain critical engine areas around the rings and cylinder walls I would be hesitant to use ATF. It may immediately carbon and add to the problem. I would have to test this and then tear apart the engine to verify effect.

As for using diesel fuel ask anyone who owns a diesel truck and the effect of dropping an injector. Or, filling the crankcase with diesel fuel. The effect is immediate and catastrophic. The diesel fuel in high concentrations washes out the oils protective qualities and causes bearing failure. Search, the net there are quite a few Chevy Duramax owners who have experienced this problem when their Izuzu diesel in their new trucks.

Dilute any oil to much and it becomes a cutting oil for heat disipation and does very little for lubrication. SeaFoam works, just follow application rates.

 

I don't know much about small truck diesels, but I owned drived and maintained a large truck for 20 years. I did not say to fill a crankcase with kerosene/diesel, nor did I recommend it. If you are familiar with large truck diesels, then you should know what happens do to extended idling (fuel gets past the rings and mixes with oil) Dropping and injector does not normally wipe out the bearings, it usually wipes out the turbo (I was lucky and it got by the turbo with no damage). BTW, I drove the truck 15 miles to a repair shop, and that engine was still running fine after 1 million miles. Constant running with diesel fuel in the oil, is going to increase wear.

When was the last time you saw a auto trans carboned up?
Auto trans oil commonly reaches temperatures of 220 degrees or more. Even engine oil starts breaking down at temps over 220.

How many engines have you torn down and inspected after the use of Sea Foam? I have torn down a number of engines that have had the auto trans treatment, and have seen no shortened life or damage attributable to the use of auto trans fluid used as an engine flush.

I have seen no evidence that Sea Foam/Slick 50/Engine Restore due anything positive for an engine, and lots of evidence that most don't work and can even cause damage. I have no experience with Sea Foam, I just mistrust all the Miracle Additives.

Steve

 

FWIW, I gotta agree with steell/Steve on this one. The atf treatment was shown to me many years ago by a very experienced mechanic, who happened to be a friend. Takes some time and a few treatments, but short of a hopelessly gunked up engine, it works. It's safe.

And, of course, there's no substitute for good maintenance.

Oldbones

 

Steve,

I appologize if I upset you in any way. As we all know our experiences are varied and as a result we should all benefit from each other. I can neither advocate or admonish the use of ATF fluid in the engine as a flush. I have seen auto trans with considerable amount of carbon and build up due to neglect and the fluid temps exeeding 200 degree F. ATF life span and effective protective abilities geometrically decrease as the temp rises above 200.

But, as a flush that remains in the engine for no more than 5-10 min that would seem alright. Without performing an oil analysis of the engine before and after it would be difficult to determine if the results are beneficial or harmful.

As far as using diesel I have no BIG RIG experience. But trying to compare them to gas engines would seem like comparing apples and oranges. So I am not going to even attempt to compare. How much diesel can you add to the crankcase and not dilute the oil to the point of bearing failure........????? Given that big rigs hold a few gallons of oil compared to a few quarts in an average car I would not want to experiment to find out....again another case of using oil analysis to find the critical point of saturation were the cleaning properties are sufficent enough without losing the lubrication properties.

As for SeaFoam it is not in the same catagory as Slick 50 or Restore......so it is not marketed as a snake oil in a can that will cure anything. It is simply a decarbonizer that works great to clean things that are gunked up.

Sorry, for the misunderstanding on the issue.

 

If you read my post above, referencing the contents of Sea Foam, you will see it contains 25% - 35% Naphtha by weight, now, I would like to refer you to an Encyclopedia http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/n1/naphtha.asp , where it states . And it also states .

Now, if Sea Foam is safe to use in the oil (and I have no experience with it), how in the world could ATF or kerosene be dangerous to use?

Final Conclusion: Strip the motor down to it's componet parts and wash them by hand (use Tide), that ought to get the gunk off.

 

will the pan come off without the motor being lifted? if so i may just pull it and scrub it out.... maybe it is the safest...huh?

thanks for your replies ....... debate is a good thing right?

 

nope it will need lifting still. and don't forget the gunk under the valve cover.

 

steve, i have heard the same idea, flush out motor with atf, i was told by an ex mechanic, he told me when i owned a sable, to use one qt of tranny fluid in replacement of one qt of oil, because it gums up the oil passages in the head. He said to use it every oil change for a couple oil changes, to break down the gung, because atf is a detergent. I was hesitant at first, i mean who would put tranny fluid in their oil????, well i did, and i feel i noticed a difference in the temp of the car, and the gas mileage, im goin to start this on my 90 f-150 with 126,000miles.
James

 

will try the atf this wkend as a flush, should i run it for just a few mins.?BTW did clean the valve cover out, so now just bottom side of motor is probably still gunky....have plan to get that fram filter off too! read in other forum about that.! old habits die hard but this one will end this weekend.


also guys... found the culprit for all the cr** in this motor...i think

...had a vacuum port open to the world! no wonder she was so cruddy! sucked in god knows what!

sound reasonable?

 

No, an open vacuum port would not do it. Anything sucked into it would go right through the cylinders and out the exhaust.

Two reasons for crud buildup are never changing oil, and not running the proper thermostat. A cool running engine gets condensation in the valve covers, which then drips, mixes with the oil, and forms a white milky residue that gets splashed on everything and hardens. This is sludge.

There is no harm at all in using one quart of ATF in your crankcase. It's oil, and it has super detergent properties. Next time your hands and arms are covered with grease, just use ATF to clean them. You'll be amazed.

Sea Foam (naptha) would evaporate instantly at engine temps. I can't see it doing much of anything to clean up an engine internally.

 

Regular oil changes, proper thermostat, and KEEP YOUR PCV WORKING PROPERLY. That's (P)ositive (C)rankcase (V)entilation. It's not some stupid, ineffective pollution deal that should be yanked off immediately. It's main purpose is to ventilate the crankcase so that moisture, fumes and such don't build up and then cause exactly what y'all are talking about. The fact the funky air that gets sucked out is burned in the engine is just an added plus.

When I started wrenching engines only had road draft tubes for ventilation. These barely worked in the first place and then only when the vehicle was moving at a pretty good rate. When you tore down one of those motors you fully expected an awful mess. In fact I always kind of looked forward to seeing just how bad it was going to be. Modern engines never look like that. As long as their PCV system is working.

It sounds like you found the reason for it if that "vacuum port" was part of the PCV system. Anyone who unhooks the PCV or disables it can expect to find the same crud in their engine, just like the old days. This should come as no suprise. That's what the PCV system is there for, to stop that. And it works real well. Keep your breathers breathing and your hoses hooked up the way they're supposed to be, even if you've modified your engine. It's all there for a real good reason. The pollution part is secondary.

All these tricks for "cleaning" cruddy engines have been around since those old days. Necessity is the mother of invention, I guess. Old timers told me that stuff when I was starting. If the tricks work as good as they used to then I'd have to say don't waste your time. You will get a lot of stuff out but it won't get "clean". And you might loosen stuff that would be better off stuck.

Clean your valve cover since it's easy to get off, side cover too and the oil pan if your up for it. These things, being thin sheet metal, get a lot of build up since they're cooler. The oil pan has a lot of hot oil but gravity sends the crud there. Clean everything you can get at while those parts are off. After that just change your oil regularly and take care of your PCV system. That's about all you can do short of disassembly.

 

something my dad believed in was removing the thermostat.which is exactly what i did a cpl years ago...(when i first got this truck) but after reading so many postings here at FTE reinstalled it when i put the head back on... thanks for your info on that .. didn't think about it that way as far as the vacuum thing goes but it does stand to reason


:-x22

 

Good for you. I have NEVER understood the logic of removing the thermostat. Yet, you still see it being recommended, and if you look hard enough, you can even find it on these boards.

Maybe it goes back to the days of unpressurized cooling systems with alcohol based antifreeze, when 195 really was hot and dangerously close to boiling.

 

So you were driving around with no thermostat, no crankcase ventilation and you wound up with a warped head and an engine full of crud. Imagine that. It's quite possible no thermostat may have contributed to the warped head as well as to the extra dirty engine.

The good thing is you have seen the evidence first-hand and learned two good lessons in automotive maintainence. That you can keep.

Just don't tell us that you also don't use antifreeze/coolant. I know that is still very common down here in Florida. But even if it doesn't freeze enough down here to crack a block the coolant does raise the boiling point of the water (we do get hot) and MOST important is the anti-corrosive stuff that's in it. Adds years to your radiator and heater core and stops buildup of stuff that might block coolant passages in the engine. But if you have a rotten radiator or heater core you've already learned that lesson too. Make that three good lessons.
Good Luck,
Roger

 

Just because the 2 use the "same " MSDS does not mean they are made and mixed with the same chemicals. It simply means the safety hazards are the same.