So, I put a new cam and lifters in my 1979 F150 with a 400. While breaking in the cam it was clattering like crazy. I tore it apart again afterwards and 12 lifters are absolutely ruined, the bottom ends are worn down 1/4 inch on some and mangled. One lifter has Completely collapsed and all 16 appear to be frozen, I can't compress them for the life of me.
However, the cam appears to be fine. From what I can tell, there is no damage or wear on the cam. I also had a new timing chain and gears which seems loose now.
I used the grey cam break in lube on the cam lobes and lifter base. I added extra zinc to the oil before break in as well, and kept it above 2000 RPM.

Could this have been caused by bad cam bearing? Not enough oil to the lifters? Me messing up preload?

Heres a link to the lifters I used
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-ht900/make/ford
Link to the cam
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-5200/make/ford

 

IF the cam isn't wiped of some lobes, IF it looks as good as you say, chances are just cheap low grade lifters. I know, "Summitt" but I don't know who made them.
Cam bearings did not cause the lifters to fail.
Thing I would do if you haven't already ... drain all that oil, pull the pan, have a good look for metal ... and new filter too.
I'd maybe even look at a rod bearing and a main bearing too.
If the truck is 4wd, pulling the pan is not so bad.

You mention preload ... what was your method?

 

What springs did you use? Many cams require new springs and the stockers are usually weak and won't deal with extra lift.

Roller cams are the "only" way to go.....

 

Agreed I'll never do another build without a roller cam.

If you wiped the lifters you wiped the cam. even if it looks good it's shot. the only thing to do now is pull the engine completely down and start over you have to get the metal out and install new wear parts. in the process you might find a problem or you might just find that you simply ate the lifers as that can happen.

 

Agree on roller cams. Not only is your cam shot but so is your build. All that metal circulated through the engine. Sorry

 

I went through this experience about 10 years ago on my 460. Metal circulated and ruined alot. Summit warrantied the comp cam kit but I had to replaced bearings, remachine the crank etc. I thought I did everything right never di find out what happened. The next time I found out about the cam research cam king machine service in colorado. Cam-King | Cam Reseach ? Custom Ford Camshafts At the time it was less than $70 including return shipping to have them break-in your cam and lifters on their machine. Pretty cheap insurance if you ask me. I have over 20k miles on it with no known issues.

Next time I am going to order my cam kit from them with a custom grind. They seem pretty knowledgeable and personable about cam grinds and what works best for your application.

 

I set the cylinder 1 to TDC, using the timing marks on the crank. I then marked on the distributor all the other ignition points for the other cylinders using the cap. Then, I rotated the motor until a colder was at TDC, used the firing order to set the preload for each cylinder at TDC, doing both intake and exhaust at the same time. It a weird method I thought up myself and I really can't se anything wrong with this method, but then again, what do I know.

So, is the entire engine shot or can I still "Fix" it?

I want to keep this build on the cheap, that's why I went with the summit cam and lifters, and if I'm not mistaken, roller cams are kinda pricy.

 

There is no preload on a 400 for the lifters. If you didn't torque the rockers down to about 22 foot pounds you found your problem. there also are two point where the balancer will show 0 as you rotate. Only one is top dead center for no. 1 cylinder as in ignition point.

 

Springs?

The whole thing has to come apart to inspect bearing surfaces and CLEAN all that stuff out of the block. Your oil pump is probably junk by now too with the metal going through it.

Roller cams are expensive, but you are already paying the price of "cheap".

 

I've broke in quite a few cams with lifters, never wiped a cam lobe except twice, once when a police car overheated in a chase, wiped two exhaust lobes then, other time was a 305 '79 Malibu totally stock, maybe 50-60K miles, just started missing and spitting back under load ... I will run a flat tappet cam in my 400, just like what is in my 351M. I was thinking about this today while working on mine, my 351M's current cam has about 65K miles, was a Crane "Fireball" series, same specs as that Summitt cam ... used Crane lifters, stock springs, and I just put the lifters in with a few squirts of oil where the push rods set, a bit of oil squirted over the whole deal ... and Crane grey paste assembly lube, tightened the rockers down. Lifters pumped up, been fine ever since. I don't recall Crane stating to use a certain spring back then. Exact same specs too. They used to, maybe still do, recommend breaking in with mild or stock springs and then swapping in the race springs if desired.

I might reuse my cam with a new set of lifters and springs in a 400 even.

I do agree, if lifters are that eat up, hard to believe the cam survived ... likely not ... and that metal is somewhere in that engine.

I don't understand how one can reliably break in lifters with a certain cam unless done in the engine they are to be run in ... reliably ... as lifter bores to cam lobes might be close, but they vary which is why you never use used lifters or move them to different holes once broke in.

I've not yet ever installed a roller cam. Rollers can fail, eat up cams, etc too.

 

Did you check camshaft end play with new timing gear installed and before lifters? Sounds almost like thrust plate is missing.

 

I did not check the end play, but I am not missing the thrust plate.

Springs are stock, I took them off and re installed them when I replaced the valve stem seals, they seemed fine. When installed I can just barely compress them slightly with two hands of force. I can imagine if springs are too soft that they would damage anything.

I did NOT oil the lifters before I installed them. I noticed that when I torqued the rockers that they seemed the slightest loose. I told myself that when the lifters filled and pressurized they would remove any slack. This might be the problem

Upon first start-up, lifter noise was immediate.

As stated initially, now when the lifters are removed, they seem rock solid. Even in a vice I could not compress them, I have suspicions that this might have caused lifter wear.

My leading "theory" right now is that the lifters failed.

 

Spring pressure is one thing, but did they coil bind at the lift of the new cam?

 

If it's a mild cam and stock springs it's doubtful you have a problem there.

The lifters will fill and take up the slack. but you have to check the preload . again if everything is mild and stock it's not likely you had too much preload, and insufficient preload would cause noise but not cam or lifter damage.

If it was noisy the whole time it's possible you had too little oil pressure or oil system problems.

To answer your question , yes you have to pull the engine and start from scratch . tank the block and clean everything. then determine what if anything can be reused. in the process you might find the problem.

You have a really sucky situation.. I feel for you dude I've been in similar situations, so just rip off the bandage and go for it .

 

To add my $.02... I was always taught to "soak" your lifters overnight in the oil you are using for break-in of the engine... knock on wood, never had a failed lifter on any of my rebuilds.
And yep, X2 on everything coming apart and getting cleaned of all metal, all it takes is one small sliver to clog a passage.
Sorry for your experience