Hi all,

I have a crazy engine Problem.

1. I did not change anything before the problem appeared.
2. There was a lose bolt where the mufflerpipe is attached to the exhaust manifold. Exhaust was comming out and still comes out but just a litte <-- from my point of view there is no relationship because it was all the time like that.

Problem:
The engine runs bad. To power at all, really bad reaction related to giving throttle. After starting up, when it was warm, the first 15 seconds there is no Problem. After the first 30m of driving the problem comes up.
It sounds like the engine just dont go up in RPM. It also sounds like the ignition is really early but just from my feeling, I dont have much of these old v8 cars. The egine is really tight. The starter is doing really hard to turn when the engine is warm.
After a few turns (when the oil is all over again?) its getting easier for the starter engine.
Feels like there is no fuel but i tried to solve this by going without the filter, diddnt help.
You will see and hear the problem in the vidoes.

What I have done so far:
- checked plugs and ignition -> in idle and as i can check, all cylinders are firing at the right time
- checked compression > 95 - 100 psi on the right 4 cylinders, 100 - 120 psi on the left 4 cylinders (no idea why it is like that)
- checked carb and anything reachable by endoskop and did not found any damage or obvious problem

Please help, I ve no Idea what to do next. I can not find anything for the carb (like basic adjustments and stuff), I can not check the timing because i dont have a tool and this virus makes it impossible to get one.

Videos:

 

None of the videos work. Probably a sharing setting on YouTube.

These engines are simple. Don’t think too deep. Fuel or ignition. You didn’t say what carb you have. Pull it, disassemble and look for ANY signs of goo or clogging. Clean carb by soaking in a bucket of carb cleaner, don’t just rely on spraying the passageways.

If I remember, you are in Germany? Is that correct?

 

Hey,

thanks a lot, its working now! NOT THE CAR BUT THE VIDEOS

 

Hi Steven. Glad it is working better now. What did you do to fix it?
Love seeing your truck looking so nice. Sorry it's not always cooperating.

I have a couple of questions/observations. First, you asked about the type of carburetor. That is a Carter AFB (means aluminum four barrel) and it's their Competition Series so has a manually operated choke and was available in either a 500cfm or 625cfm size.
Do you use your choke when the engine is cold?
Next, can you post a close picture of the driver's side valve cover tubing? It is a vacuum line from the carburetor and should be connected to a PCV valve. Yours looks like it's just tubing and fittings though, and this would be a very large vacuum leak and possibly cause some of your problems.

Also, the starter is cranking/turning over a little bit slowly and inconsistently. This may be due to one or more things.
The potential issues, starting with the most common are:

1. The starter and battery cables are too small, or are deteriorating from age.
Are yours new? Are the connections clean and tight? Are they at least 4 gauge?
2. Weak, or under-sized battery.
3. Slightly too much ignition timing advance.
What is your initial timing set at? Is the vacuum advance connected to full vacuum?
4. Older, or poor quality starter motor.
5. Poor quality starter relay/solenoid.
If the old relay is rusty the connections can be weak. Most new ones that go bad simply don't work. Not very often that one causes the starter to be weak, but it does happen.

I suppose a #6 would be the main ground cable from the battery to the engine. Really part of #1, but deserves it's own special mention.
Where is yours connected to the engine? Is it newer and sufficiently sized?

Just a few comments and suggestions then. I realize you already got it running better, but from your videos those are questions I had.

Thanks!

Paul

 

The points and condensers that are sold these days are Chinese trash and it is hard to get really good quality ignition parts. Changing over to a Petronics kit would be a good thing to do even if the points and condenser are not the problem.
I know you said that you do not have a timing light but hopefully you will get one. Are you sure that the plate in the distributor is not loose and the flyweights and springs under the plate are in good condition.
From the sounds of the starter makes me think that it is drawing so much amperage that there is not enough current for the ignition. As the above poster said be sure the cables are good, there should be negative cable connecting the engine, frame and the body together.
It may be possible that the brushes in the starter could be worn down and the commutator is pitted. If you have access to a lathe it can be resurfaced and the bushings replaced. Of course I do not know what the parts availability situation is in Germany. I have a friend here that has a starter rebuilding business with every part for your starter or can send you a rebuilt one.

 

UPDATE:

Unfortunatly the car ist not working, just the viedos are available

About the the other things:

1. Starter:

The starter works fine, when the engine is cold. Its firing up instanly, I did not have had any problems by firing up ind the past and still dont have. Wiring and stuff looks ok and I would place the problem (if there is one) to the battery.
The only thing ist, if the engine is warm, the starter has to work much more. In my opinion it could be because of a really tidy Bore/pisten ratio. I think there is no relation to the problem because it was alwasy like that.

2. The Problem:

Today Ive been in the shop in the morning and checked the ignitor and the "advanced vacuum". I made a Video to show and I also did made some pic`s as requested.
After that, I fired up the engine (started instanly and with choke) at around 8 Celsius outside temp. (around 45F). I had let it run for about 5 minutes and played with the throttle. The Sound was good and it feels pretty good.

Than i started a ride, the first 2 accelerations from around 0 - 30mph had been absolutly normal and powerful. (10 seconds).

After that, the problem appeared as known and it felt like there is no power and its doing some early ignitions i think.
It feels like it is something related to the throttle and the way I move it (really slowly is ok, fast is impossible).

Would it makes sense to just go a little behind with the ignition without measuring and see how it feels? How should I do it, never done on this old cars.

 

Get a volt meter and measure the voltage at the + or Bat side of the coil when the engine is running.
Make sure that the reluctor wheel is not loose on the distributor shaft.
The Ford Dura spark ignition has been known to act the way your engine is running. The control box gets hot and starts to cause problems, look on the back side of the box to see if it is melting.
From the casting # on your intake manifold starting with c4 means it is a 1964 casting along with the breather oil fill tube.

 

You will need some diagnostic and test equipment, if planning on driving 50+ year old machinery. None of it is too elaborate or expensive. The Ford Truck Shop Manual for your year model is available in print or electronic form. I don't know why anyone would try to work without it.

At minimum a low ranging voltmeter, ignition timing light, compression gauge, and a mechanic's vacuum gauge is required for engine diagnostics and tuning. The latter in particular is very useful finding any engine derangements.

Measure, don't guess!

 

I got anything without the Tool for the Timing but i will make one Diy till Monday.

I can Not find the manual to buy or download in germany, in english languege of course.

So ill Start to measure... What Exactly and which numbers to expect?

Where and how should i measure vac?
Ill also check the Timing and the ignition Box.

I would Not even no what to measure and test on the ignition because IT is Not the Stock one and i cant find any Information about it.

​​​​​​NOTICE: The engine is Not hot or even that warm when the problem appears. The area of the Box does bot become any tempreture that fast.

My guess would be something Not electronical for the problem because IT should be there All the time Not appearing after the first 30meter?
​​

 

Well it would be inconvenient to translate into Deutsch language, but the Shop Manual has the information required to make necessary repairs and adjustments. There is no way around this. It also has a Tune-Up section, and a basic troubleshooting "tree" or flow chart, that saves time and unnecessary parts replacement. Finally it has the bolt torque specifications, fluid types and quantities, wiring diagrams, voltage specifications etc.

There are additional complications due to the age, defects that were not a factor 30 or 40 years ago will now tend to emerge, coupled with the fact there is a high probability of assembly mistakes or incorrect components installed from well meaning but less than experienced owner operators.

What I always emphasize when a "new" old truck is acquired is to start with the basics. Assume nothing, don't guess, measure. Start with a baseline assessment of the engine condition, the internal health of pistons, rings, valves. A cylinder compression test, or a leakdown test. Check oil pressure with a mechanical gauge when engine is hot at 2000 RPM. This will indicate whether the crankshaft and piston rod bearings are excessively worn. All of these are important to measure first, because performing a Tune-Up is pointless if the engine has serious internal wear or damage.

Ignition, and ignition timing defects are very common in these old trucks. In order to set ignition timing and test for operation throughout the full RPM accurately the TDC or "top dead center" point should be verified as accurately located on the crankshaft balancer. An inexpensive tool called a "piston stop" is used to set the #1 piston at TDC compression stroke, and the ignition timing marks on the crankshaft balancer should coincide with the pointer exactly.

 

Hi,

compression is checked, leak down as well, everything good.

Compression is between 100 and 120.
Balancer is Set to 0 at tdp.
Also checked the cylinders and pistons by cam, no Cracks or anything what does Not look normal...

Ill check timing on monday but i have no idea where to go from there. I would Not know what to check else.
Ill also check the coil, how it has to be?

Anyway to check if there is enough fuel for the carb? Can i check the fuel Level of the carb from outside?

 

To me the cranking speed is slow and the hesitations can be due to the timing being too far advanced, if it is not a weak battery or weak starter. Look down the throat of the carburetor, wearing safety glasses, once the engine is having the problem. Rev the engine up while looking down the throat of the carburetor to see if fuel is dribbling out. It should be so finely atomized that you can't see any droplets. If there are droplets it will cause the engine to be too rich and not accelerate. Also you must get a timing light and check you ignition timing at idle, then again as you accelerate the engine to be sure it is advancing.

I have the same green and white truck as you.

 

I agree the engine cranking or starting speed (when engine is hot?) is unrelated, though it points to incorrect or overly advanced ignition timing. The way to tell that, is to temporarily disable the ignition, by grounding the ignition coil output or disconnecting the primary coil wire. Then see if normal cranking speed returns. If the problem persists that points to a failing starter, or loose, missing, or corroded ground cables & connections.

The mechanic's vacuum gauge is probably the most useful tool for a quick assessment of overall engine health and state of tuning. It takes some experience and judgment to interpret the results, but I don't know why anyone would want to try and tune up an older engine without one. It will be obvious to even a new user if there are any serious problems right away. A compression test is a lot more work or a bit tedious and plays hell with the battery and starter. If an engine pulls 19" to 21" Hg. at sea level and passes a couple other indications the compression can be indirectly inferred to be acceptable. A vacuum test may not replace a compression test but it's a whole lot faster and easier.

Somebody once described a vacuum gauge as a "SteamPunk Scangauge" and that's pretty close. Another useful tool not found much anymore is the CRT ignition oscilloscope. Maybe the newer digital versions are useful on the vintage iron, I don't know. But taking a good look at the overall ignition system this way can save much head scratching and wasted time and money.

 

Hi, Thanks so far.

As i wrote, ive done the compression test and also the leak down. Everything is in good conditions as i can interpret. No obiviously defect or damage as well.

Next step will be the Check of the Timing, could be something loose or so on.

What makes me really crazy is, that the problem ist Not feel or visible in no drinving situations. Means, if there is No gear locked in, you wont See the problem. IT just appears after the first seconds of acceleration and than stay until you left the car off for hours.

Probably ive to disassamble the carb to See if there is something wrong but i dont want to.

Just a guess for myself:

If compression and leak down is fine, Timing is fine (also during throttel down), spark is ok, fuel is in the carb, the engine has to run normally, correct?

The Only next Thing to check would be the fuel line.
How does the fuel tank inside outtake looks like. Could there be a Problem related to acceleration and g force or General movement?

 

Ignition timing is more complicated than simply setting the base 8° (example) with the distributor, it has to be checked for proper mechanical movement and ignition advance throughout the RPM range, as well as checking the proper function of the vacuum advance mechanism. Maybe you know this already, and have done this. But, it is not possible without a timing light.

The old saying is "90% of carburetor problems are ignition related". That said, you should check to see that the fuel pump pressure output is within spec. A mechanic's vacuum gauge will also do this. It is a critical check, and the float height, which determines the fuel height in the bowl. Either a high or low fuel height will cause trouble.

Did you check to see that the internal carburetor accelerator pump is functioning? These rubber diaphragms are well known to not handle gasoline well. With the engine OFF, look down the carburetor throat and move the throttle. Should see two thin streams of fuel squirting immediately every time it is moved. This compensates for a fuel deficit immediately when throttle is opened.