Hello,
I am new to this forum. I own a 1994 F250 4X4 Supercab with 460 and I believe the heavy duty axles.
I have done a rear end Wheel bearing and seal service so I have the correct spindle nut socket to remove the spindle nut, at least on the rear. My problem is for the life of me, I can't get the front spindle nuts to release.

The rear spindle nut had a ratcheting kind of lock nut and was very easy to remove. I am aware of the left and right hand thread for the nut, at least on the rear axle.

The front spindle nut is a little different but appears to use the same socket. The nut is the one with the four slots that the socket fits into. Behind the nut, the locking washer(?) is very different from the one on the rear, it is flat and thick and has 4 large rectangular "ears" but no ratchet mechanism is visible.

Is there something I am supposed to do to get this to break loose? As usual the "how to do it manuals" say to remove such and such but don't give details. From the manuals, it appears that the spindle nut when it is torqued back on doesn't take a lot of torque so I wouldn't expect it to take a lot to take it off. Do I need to use an air wrench or a really long breaker bar? I don't want to honk on the nuts too hard unless that is what is required. I am a fairly big guy and have been known to break parts so I assume I am using enough strength, but am missing something on the removal?

The only problem I am having other than not breaking the nut loose, is that as I start to really apply a lot of pressure the socket slips off the slots and I don't want to "round off" the slots or the socket fingers. I even had my 7 year old boy push on the socket head with his foot while I honked on the breaker bar.

I am sure this is probably something simple, but so far I haven't seen anything I am missing.

I would appreciate any help on this.

Jim Henderson

 

Jim,

If i am reading you right, you have got the outer spindle nut of, correct? And you must have manual hubs??..

If all that is true, then the lock ring you speak of is flat and just slips on, and a pin from the spindle nut behind and a notch on the axle KEEPS it from turning. I just grab mine with a dental pick and pull it off. no turning is needed, unless you wedged it tight by trying to loosen the nut, then you might need to get the socket back on it and tighten it a little.

Then the nut will be exposed to get the bearing out. Your are correct, it isnt torqued very tight after the intial seating.

hope that help

MC

 

I think he is saying he can't get the nut off to get at the lock if this is the case check to see if there are holes through the nut mine seems to be a little bit different it has flat sides and the lock is through the nut it could be a different lock. My book says there is on some models a tab bent up in one of the slots that locks this outer nut in place. John

 

I'm not quite familiar with the manual hubs, but are they like the auto locking hubs with that little metal piece in the groove under the nut? I know my first experience with the autos I didn't see it because of grease. I use a magnet to remove it after I have released any pressure on it from the nut.




88 F-150 4X4 w/5.0 EFI 5 spd
86 Ranger 2WD w/2.3L EFI 5 spd to be 351W 4bbl C4

 

I do have the manual hubs but I wish I had the spindle nut off. The flat washer with the 4 ears on it is behind the nut with the 4 slots in it. I notice that the ears on the washer have a small hole in each one. I have tried to use a pick or punch to turn the flat washer but so far no luck.

How do you get the nut off? I am afraid to honk on it harder than I have, in fear of A) rounding the slots in the nut or B)rounding the fingers on the socket. Do I need to push in really hard on the socket while turning the nut? I don't see as how the flat washer is flexible enough to be pushed in by the fingers on the socket.

BTW, there appears to be a keyway on the spindle itself. Is there something inside the keyway that needs to be pushed in to get the nut to unlock?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Jim Henderson

 

Second part of my reply, since I am so new to this list I didn't see the option to include your email quote...

My additional questions in CAPS.


>
>If all that is true, then
>the lock ring you speak
>of is flat and just
>slips on, and a pin AH A PIN? IS THE PIN REMOVABLE, HOW DO I GET TO IT?
>from the spindle nut behind
>and a notch on the
>axle KEEPS it from turning.
> I just grab mine
>with a dental pick and
>pull it off. no turning
>is needed, unless you wedged
>it tight by trying to
>loosen the nut, then you
>might need to get the
>socket back on it and
>tighten it a little. HMMM MAYBE I DID WEDGE IT TIGHTER, I NOTICE THAT THE HOLES IN EACH EAR OF THE WASHER ARE SLIGHTLY IN A DIFFERENT POSITION FROM BEFORE. DO I RETIGHTEN THE NUT AND THEN WHAT DO I DO TO LOOSEN IT WITHOUT WEDGING THE WASHER AGAIN.
>

SLOWLY A PICTURE IS COMING TO ME IN MY HEAD. WISH I WAS AT HOME LOOKING AT THE SPINDLE.

THANKS,

JIM HENDERSON

 

OK Thanks for the reply, I will take a peek. There is a keyway in the spindle, I wonder if there is some little tab or "locking finger" that is holding the nut in place.

I do have the manual hubs and my washer is flat with 4 ears on it and each ear has a small hole in it.

Jim Henderson

 

Thanks, for the reply.

Interesting, the locking piece is loose enough to pull out with a magnet? I will have to take a look. Last time I looked in the keyway on the spindle it was a biut greasy and I didn't suspect anything small to be in it so I didn't look real hard inside the keyway.

Jim Henderson

 

Jim,

if you still have not gotten the outside spindle nut off then forget about the lock ring behind it. once the outside spindle nut is off, the lock ring will then just slide off. Sounds like maybe not enough force to get it off is the problem.

I just repacked my bearings 2 weeks ago, and when you retorque that outside nut, it is suppose to go to 160-205 ft lbs. And the only way i could do that was to have someone push in while I turned so the wrench didnt slip off. So if a shop did it last time and had one of those 30inch long torque wrenches it could be almost 200 lbs tight!

The other thing i have over you it sounds like, is that my socket covers the entire nut and has 4 nubs on the inside, verses having 4 pins that stick out, and could bend as you were saying. But it still wanted to slip.

As far as auto hubs vs manuals 95-96 used a different type of nut and lock ring for autos, and required an entirely different socket

MC

 

Actually I have both types of sockets. Both purchased from NAPA.

The "open socket I originally purchased for the rear spindle nuts. It required a little bit of grinding to fit properly on the back but worked easily once it fit for the rear. I tried to use it on the front and didn't like the slippage so I went looking for something better. I found the second socket which sounds similar to what you have, it is kind of shaped like a bell with a ring around the outside and the fingers on the inside of the ring. This doesn't slip as easy and seems a snugger fit. But still no luck removing the nut.

BUT I haven't gone home yet to try some of the ideas several posters have given me. I plan to take a very careful look inside the key way on the spindle and maybe re tighten the nut just a bit to take tension off of what sounds like a little locking pin or spring inside the keyway. Makes sense to me since I have seen similar locking mechanisims somewhere else, but can't remember. What with all the grease, a small pin could easily hid in the keyway especially if it was designed to slip into the keyway and lie flat against the bottom of the slot.

Lots of ideas to try out thanks to the list. And I bet it is something simple like a small pin or spring in the keyway, happens every time.

Jim Henderson

 

Mine has a lock, kinda like a wedge that keeps the nut from backing off, its small but its probably there. I learned this the hard way i got a 1/2 in impact and took it off , chewed the threads up.
Trouble

 

Well, went home last night to take a quick peek to see if there was a small pin or wedge or something inside the keyway on the spindle. But as near as I can tell there is nothing in the keyway. I admit it was getting a bit late and I did't have my kleig lights out, just a hand flashlite so maybe I wasn't seeing everything. I used a small pick to feel around in both slots and didn't feel anything obvious. This week end I will use my good lights and my magnifier headset for a good look.

From what I was able to see the key way is pretty clear except for a little bit of grease. I can see a tab from the flat washer(the one with 4 ears with a hole in each ear) inside the keyway BTW it is not clear that the hoel is actually in the ear, On second look the hole appears to be about 1/16th and coincidentally I see 1 hole thru each slot of the nut. There appears to be either another flat washer or perhaps nut behind the lock washer(the one with 4 ears). I did not see any pins or other locking devices, but then it is a tight space to get a good look into.

I am not sure since the owner manual isn't clear on what front end I have but the Haynes manual says that most models like mine had either a DANA 50 or a 60 on the front, from the description mine sounds more like the 60 since they say it is a solid axle setup while the 50 is independent. The manual claims the 50 and 60 mechanicals are similar looking. The blow up drawing for the Dana 50(only drawing they show, wouldn't ya know) shows a similar but not identical view of what I have. They show the Spindle nut(4 slots, called outer lock nut) followed by a lockwasher(4 ears with several holes all around the washer but none in the ears. The washer is followed by an inner locknut with 4 slots and 1 pin. I assume the pin matches up with the holes in the lock washer. The drawing does not show a keyway on the spindle or mating tabs on any of the washers/nuts. Sorry for the description but since I am running out of ideas I thought I would describe what I can see versus what the only drawing I have tells me I should see, and they are slightly different.

My nearest guess is that the pin on the inner locknut mates to the lockwasher and that maybe the pin protrudes into the outer lock/spindle nut. Maybe the inner locknut can be somehow pushed back out of the lockwasher and and out of contact with the outer lock/spindle nut and then everything is hunky dory? Once early on mentioned that he was able to push the pin back. What I need to know is how. Or is there something else I am missing? Or is the inner locknut with pin an expendable item which should be blasted away with an impact wrench or more likely a long breaker bar with me honking on it?

Thanks,

Jim Henderson

 

 

Got both nuts off and found religion too. People who KNOW to use the correct tool will laugh at me but I feel great now.

This is one of those times where after years of doing it the hard way, you come to realize the old truth. "The right tool can make any job easier".

Well my F250 front end spindle nuts are finally off and as described in detail previously they had an inner lock nut a lock washer and an outer lock nut. After looking at the inside of the hub in detail I could see nothing to prevent the outer lock nut from being removed. I even used a dental pick to follow the groves of the thread on the spindle to make sure which way I should turn the nut(Rt hand, on both sides!!). None of my manual tools would work, the special socket always slipped and threatend to munge up the locknut. I finally broke down. After tweaking a wrench for maybe 30 years, as a hobby, I finally bought myself an electric impact wrench. I didn't think it would work since I already have one of those "whack it hard with a hammer" impact wrenches, which BTW I have never gotten to work. I never really needed an impact wrench except maybe once every year or two, so I never broke down and bought a real one and was always able to improvise.

I put the socket on the impact wrench and fearing the worst I pulled the trigger, Ping ping ping, ziiiip. The nut spun off, it was a religious experience. If you don't have an impact wrench, you have got to get yourself one. No muss, no fuss, it wasn't even hard to hold. It just took the nut off, took all of maybe 5 seconds to do. It works great on lug nuts too, BTW, no more long cranking sessions for me.

Sooo, after a long story and two weeks of wrenching on the spindle nut, I think my saga is ended. Do get youself an impact wrench, it is wonderful.

BTW not mentioned in the Haynes manual, is that the FRONT SPINDLE NUTS ARE BOTH RIGHT HAND THREAD(ie normal). The manual actually lead me to believe that both front and back axles were threaded "left on left side and right on right side". The front is NOT like this, at least on my truck.

So, Thanks, for your help. And now to play with my tool.

Jim Henderson

 

so the nut came off to the right ------> clockwise ? I am having similar problems with a 88 f-250.....axle tag says it's a Dana 44 but in late 87 ford did some stupid stuff and I my truck is a 12/87 manufactured 88 year model.