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Will Ford Increase 2020 GVWR to Meet or Beat GM?

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Will Ford Increase 2020 GVWR to Meet or Beat GM?

 
  #1  
Old 07-12-2019, 04:14 PM
JD'sBigredv10
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Will Ford Increase 2020 GVWR to Meet or Beat GM?

GM is upsetting the apple cart when it comes to the traditional definitions of 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. The big three have limited the GVWR of 250/2500 trucks to 10,000 pounds, keeping them classified as Class 2 vehicles. GVWR, and more importantly, the resulting payload, is as much about marketing as it is actual capability. For the 2020 HD redesign, GM is ignoring the previous norms. I know this applies to GMC, so I assume it will be the same (or very similar) for Chevy.

A 2020 GMC Siera Denali 2500HD will be available with a max GVWR of 11,550 pounds. That exceeds the F-350 GVWR. The max payload will be 3597 pounds...for a loaded crew cab with a Duramax! Who knows what these numbers will look like when they release the specs for the lower trim trucks. Oddly, the 3500 SRW will have a max GVWR of 12,250, only 700 pounds more than the 2500.


How will Ford respond? The F-250 with the high capacity tow package is almost identical to a F-350. They could probably bump the GVWR north of 11,000 pounds without changing a thing but that is a very low volume option. How much would they be willing to increase the GVWR of a standard F-250? The 250 is undoubtedly underrated to keep it within the 10,000 pound Class 2 maximum so I would assume Ford has room to increase ratings without re-engineering anything. Will they stand pat at 10,000 pounds and let GM own the 3/4 ton payload crown by a mile? GM could claim that their 2500 is stouter that the F-350 and by the numbers, they would be correct.

If Ford chooses to increase the GVWR of the F-250, it would almost certainly force them to bump up the F-350 as well to have a reasonable differentiation between the two.

The already thin line between 3/4 and one ton trucks is blurring even further. GM made their move. What sort of ratings will the 2020 RAM 2500/3500 have? It will be interesting to see where it all leads.
 
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Old 07-12-2019, 04:42 PM
2009kr
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I was waiting for Ford to pass the 12,300 GVWR of the Ram 3500 SRW with the 2017 F350 SRW redesign. Much to my chagrin, they left it 800# below the Ram. Personally, I don't see any point in bumping the F250 from a 10k class 2 truck to a class 3. The F350 already does that.

I wouldn't count on them increasing the 11,500# GVWR on the SRW. I'm sure enjoying the F450 I bought instead though!
 
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Old 07-12-2019, 04:42 PM
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tis a tad early to know....maybe during the Texas Fair this fall.
Numbers are more secret then the TR3B Astra!
Patience, we are all waiting.....although I'm happy with my 6.2l, guys will always dream on ....heh
 
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Old 07-12-2019, 06:01 PM
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Ram is already doing this. Their 3500 SRW has a 12k+ GVWR. The rear axle weight limit is pretty much the same as Ford's SRW F-350. They just add more of the front GAWR in calculating GVWR. Its not much use though as you'll bust the rear GAWR before you can use much of the front axle's spring unless you're towing conventional with a whole lot of weight distribution.
 
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Old 07-12-2019, 06:10 PM
Fordplatty15
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The only thing Ford has to watch is Ram. Ram is throwing a ton of money on the hood to get sales. GM is BUTT ugly and sales reflect it. They are down double digits over last year and I do not see it getting any better.
 
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Old 07-12-2019, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Fordplatty15 View Post
The only thing Ford has to watch is Ram. Ram is throwing a ton of money on the hood to get sales. GM is BUTT ugly and sales reflect it. They are down double digits over last year and I do not see it getting any better.
Lol......Ford doesnít have to watch RAM because even with all of the money FCA is throwing on the hood, Ford still outsells it and thatís before the new model comes out.
 
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Old 07-12-2019, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Sport45 View Post
Ram is already doing this. Their 3500 SRW has a 12k+ GVWR. The rear axle weight limit is pretty much the same as Ford's SRW F-350. They just add more of the front GAWR in calculating GVWR. Its not much use though as you'll bust the rear GAWR before you can use much of the front axle's spring unless you're towing conventional with a whole lot of weight distribution.

It's actually less. The Ram still has a 7k axle RAWR verses our 7230lbs. As a 5th wheel guy I'd love more GVWR on my F-350. I run out of GVWR waaaay before I run out of RAWR - at something like 6600lbs on the rear axle I'm at GVWR with the diesel.....but I have another 630lbs of RAWR to use...
 
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Old 07-12-2019, 09:59 PM
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The reason I started this post is to bring attention to the fact that GM is changing the rules when it comes to 3/4 ton trucks. Everyone has simply accepted the fact that 250/2500 trucks would always have an imposed 10,000 pound GVWR to maintain their status as Class 2 vehicles. That was the hard ceiling. Well, GM just changed the rules. For them, the "3/4 ton" and "2500" monikers don't mean what we have all known them to mean. A GM 2500 will now exceed the capacity of a Ford F-350 unless Ford already has plans to do something radically different with their 2020 trucks. It would have to be an arbitrary rating change, not anything structural or mechanical. Absent changes from Ford and RAM, it will no longer be an apples to apples comparison between HD trucks across manufacturers.

When it comes to 1 ton trucks, we have all assumed that the hard ceiling was the Class 3 max 14,000 GVWR. Is that the ceiling? Probably, but maybe not. Under the currently accepted "rules" there is nothing stopping anyone from making a 14,000 pound GVWR SRW "1 ton" truck...except engineering possibly.

Most importantly, all of this fluidity in the "rules" that govern manufacturer's pickup ratings, capacities and designations threatens to render the weight police utterly lost. Just imagine a time when they won't be able to immediately pounce on every 3/4 ton truck owner towing anything heavier than a popup. The whole "you are a menace to society because you exceeded your payload sticker" genre of forum threads could be teetering on the brink of extinction. Maybe the new target will be wimpy SRW trucks so everyone will need to buy a dually to make it obvious that they're a conscientious truck owner. We may be entering a sad time indeed.

Just to be clear, the third paragraph was intended to be tongue-in-cheek for entertainment (my own) purposes only.
 
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:39 PM
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I’m happy to see this. It may push Ford to up the 350 SRW GVW. It also may get them into the mindset of pushing Class boundaries and give us an unleashed 450-550 pickup that isn’t restrained to Class 3.
 
  #10  
Old 07-13-2019, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by JD'sBigredv10 View Post

Most importantly, all of this fluidity in the "rules" that govern manufacturer's pickup ratings, capacities and designations threatens to render the weight police utterly lost. Just imagine a time when they won't be able to immediately pounce on every 3/4 ton truck owner towing anything heavier than a popup. The whole "you are a menace to society because you exceeded your payload sticker" genre of forum threads could be teetering on the brink of extinction. Maybe the new target will be wimpy SRW trucks so everyone will need to buy a dually to make it obvious that they're a conscientious truck owner. We may be entering a sad time indeed.

Just to be clear, the third paragraph was intended to be tongue-in-cheek for entertainment (my own) purposes only.
I like staying in spec. I chuckled
 
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Old 07-13-2019, 12:15 AM
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So where does this leave the 1/2 ton trucks ?

Will 2020 see all trucks move up in GVWR ?
 
  #12  
Old 07-13-2019, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by JD'sBigredv10 View Post
...

When it comes to 1 ton trucks, we have all assumed that the hard ceiling was the Class 3 max 14,000 GVWR. Is that the ceiling? Probably, but maybe not. Under the currently accepted "rules" there is nothing stopping anyone from making a 14,000 pound GVWR SRW "1 ton" truck...except engineering possibly...
As an F450 owner, the 14k GVWR is a very important limit to me. My axles sum to 15.9k, and my tires are rated for 22.8k. If they raised the GVWR to 15k, it wouldn't make the truck any more capable, it would make it less capable.

Why? Today, the sweet 450/935 6.7 in the class 3 F450 pickup (14k GVWR) would have to conform to class 4 emissions if it was rated for even one pound more. The 6.7 in the class 4 F450 CC trucks makes only 330/750.

120 less HP and 185 ft-lbs less torque for a higher GVWR? No thanks!
 
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Old 07-13-2019, 07:00 AM
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The big 3 is playing the game and catering to customers needs.
 
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Old 07-13-2019, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by KingDeleted View Post
The big 3 is playing the game and catering to customers needs.
Exactly, for $70,000 we should be getting top shelf GVWR and self driving features NOW!
 
  #15  
Old 07-13-2019, 08:27 AM
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It begs the question why even have a 3/4T in the offering.
 

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