Some say the heavier a lead acid battery is, the more lead is inside, and thus, the better battery it must be.

The following six batteries are all AGM recombinant type, rather than wet cells. But they are still made of lead, and are still considered lead acid, even though the acid is absorbed into fiberglass matting, rather than sloshing around as a liquid.

Take a look at how manufacturer reported battery weight mostly does, but occasionally doesn't, directly correlate with better, negligible, or the same electrical performance specifications:


Nominal Manufacturer Reported Weight:
58 lbs. Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 (As claimed by mfr, but the equivalent Odyssey Extreme used to also be listed as 58 lbs, but since 2016 has been listed as 54 lbs.)
55 lbs. Northstar NSB-AGM65 (As claimed by mfr.)
54 lbs. Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 (I personally verified 4 Odyssey Extremes manufactured in March of 2019 on a digital scale, and each weighed 54.4 lbs)
52 lbs. Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) (52.45 lbs)
50 lbs. Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 (49.8 lbs)
50 lbs. Interstate MTZ-65 AGM (49.8 lbs)
49 lbs. Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 (Northstar curiously omitted all references to battery weight for the Elite on their website as well as in the pdf spec file

Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) 30 seconds @ 0°F (-18°C) per Cold Start Performance S.A.E Standard J537 as ratified by the SAE in JUNE 82:
950 CCA Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 950 CCA
950 CCA Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 950 CCA
930 CCA Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = 930 CCA
930 CCA Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 930 CCA
770 CCA Interstate MTZ-65 AGM = 770 CCA
762 CCA Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 762 CCA
675 CCA Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = 675 CCA

Short Circuit Current:
5,000 Amps Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 5,000 Amps
5,000 Amps Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 5,000 Amps
5,000 Amps Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 5,000 Amps
3,300 Amps BatteriesPlus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = 3,300 Amps
2,500 Amps Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 2,500 Amps
0,000 Amps Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = No Data
0.000 Amps Interstate MTZ-65 AGM = No Data

Reserve Capacity in Minutes with 25 Ampere sustained load at 80° F (27°C) until voltage drops to 1.75 vpc (10.50V battery voltage)
145 Min Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 145 Minutes
145 Min Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 145 Minutes
135 Min BatteriesPlus X2Power SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = 135 Minutes
135 Min Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 135 Minutes
134 Min Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = 134 Minutes
130 Min Interstate MTZ-65 AGM = 130 Minutes
129 Min Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 129 Minutes

Capacity at 20 HOUR Rate - Ah Capacity / # of Amps per Hour for 20 Hours Extended Discharge at 77°F (25°C) to 10.02V or 1.67 vpc
74 Ah / 3.70 Amps Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 74 Ah / 3.70 Amps
74 Ah / 3.70 Amps Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 74 Ah / 3.70 Amps
69 Ah / 3.45 Amps Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 69 Ah (However, Northstar claims to calculate Ah rate at the ResMin standard, to a discharged cell voltage of 1.75 vpc vs 1.67 vpc)
69 Ah / 3.45 Amps Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = 69 Ah / 3.45 Amps
65 Ah / 3.25 Amps Interstate MTZ-65 AGM = 65 Ah / 3.25 Amps
64 Ah / 3.20 Amps Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 64 Ah / 3.20 Amps
00 Ah / 0.00 Amps Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = No Data

Internal Resistance at 1 kHz @ 77°F (25°C)
2.0 mΩ Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 2.0 mΩ
2.0 mΩ Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 2.0 mΩ
2.3 mΩ Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 2.3 mΩ
3.3 mΩ Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = 3.3 mΩ
3.3 mΩ Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 3.3 mΩ
X.X mΩ Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = No Data
X.X mΩ Interstate MTZ-65 AGM = No Data

Marine Cranking Amps (MCA) 30 seconds @ 32°F (0°C)
1,070 MCA Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 1,070 MCA
1,070 MCA Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 1,070 MCA
1,070 "CA" Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = Stated only as "CA", and therefore could be HCA, so MCA is assumed based on Northstar NSB equivalent
1,070 MCA Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 1,070 MCA
0,965 "CA" Interstate MTZ-65 AGM = Stated only as "CA", and therefore could be HCA, but MCA is assumed (yet not assured) based on battery industry nomenclature in common usage
0,891 MCA Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 891 MCA
0,770 MCA Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = 770 MCA

Hot Cranking Amps (HCA) 30 seconds @ 80°F (27°C)
1,350 HCA Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 1,350 HCA
1,350 HCA Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 1,350 HCA
1,200 HCA Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 1,200 HCA
0,000 HCA Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = No Data
0,000 HCA Northstar NSB-AGM65 = No Data
0,000 HCA Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = No Data
0,000 HCA Interstate MTZ-65 AGM = No Data

Pulse Hot Cranking Amps (PHCA) 5 seconds @ 80°F (27°C)
1,750 PHCA Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 1,750 PHCA
1,750 PHCA Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 1,750 PHCA
1,750 PHCA Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 1,750 PHCA
1,500 PHCA Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 1,500 PHCA
0,000 PHCA Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = No Data
0,000 PHCA Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = No Data
0,000 PHCA Interstate MTZ-65 AGM = No Data

Warranty (Non Pro Rata)
5 YRS Batteries Plus X2POWER SLI65AGMDP (by Northstar) = 60 Months Full (Fifth full year covered by Ascent Battery Supply LLC, owner of Batteries Plus)
4 YRS Enersys Odyssey EXTREME 65-PC1750 = 48 Months Full
4 YRS Northstar NSB-AGM65 = 48 Months Full
3 YRS Enersys Odyssey PERFORMANCE 65-760 = 36 Months Full
3 YRS Northstar Elite ELT-AGM65 = 36 Months Full
3 YRS Enersys Hawker MILPC Group 65 = 36 Months through DOD supply chain
2 YRS Interstate MTZ-65 AGM (If installed in diesel pickup truck used for any type of work)

Note that unlike the other 6 TPPL AGM batteries listed, Interstate's warranty provisions are quite complex and convoluted, and depend on the type of vehicle the battery is installed in, the type of engine the vehicle has, the purpose for which the vehicle is used, the country in which the vehicle is located in (USA has different warranty than Canada), and the date when the battery was purchased... not just for the length of warranty for that battery, but for the particular warranty policy in effect on the date of purchase.

To provide an idea of just how specific Interstate is, let's look at the different purchase date windows that Interstate defines:
Before May 1, 2012
Between May 1, 2012 - Dec 31, 2014
Between Jan 1, 2015 - Dec 31, 2015
Between Jan 1, 2016 - Mar 31, 2018
Between Apr 1, 2018 - Sep 30, 2018
Between Oct 1, 2018 - Apr 30, 2019
Between May 1, 2019 - July 31, 2020
Between Aug 1, 2020 - Nov 30, 2020
Between Dec 1, 2020 - Jan 28, 2021 (The date this update was written to add the Interstate MTZ-65 specs to the battery list)

As can be seen, Interstate has changed warranty policies quite frequently, with time windows between warranty policy changes occurring in as little as 4 months (eg, the previous period between August 1, 2020 and November 30, 2020). So it behooves a customer to pay attention to exactly WHAT warranty policy they are reading for their Interstate batteries, and exactly what purchase date period it applies to. Interstate was the subject of a seminal class action lawsuit on battery warranties and prorata policy, which is likely why Interstate has invested so much lawyer time revising the warranty, nit picking every detail.

In an example of Interstate's nit picking on this particular MTZ-65 AGM battery, let's look at what Interstate's warranty exceptions are for the current period, if the battery were to be purchased from December 1, 2020 until the day of this writing. On the Interstate Warranty Chart, the MTZ-65 AGM Automotive battery is shown as having a 4 yr warranty (no pro rata). However...

Against the backdrop of all of Interstates continuous alterations of their Warranty policy, combined with their narrow conditions which open the door for debate and interpretation... ie, does a cross bed tool box and a ladder rack on a pickup truck define it as being a "commercial" use in a building trade, versus "personal use" which has a different warranty period... the Interstate MTZ-65 does not present a compelling option compared to the other choices on this list. Especially when comparing the MTZ-65's 770 CCA versus the 950 CCA of the Odyssey Extreme. (Interstate MTZ-65 AGM update added January 28, 2021)


The formerly 58 lb, but now 54 lb. Odyssey Extreme is still about 11.5 lbs heavier than the Johnson Controls (now Clarios) manufactured AGM in the gray colored case sold under various brand names, depending on wax and oil chain store selling it. I may revisit this thread to provide data on any iterations of those easily identifiable batteries at some point in the future.

Northstar also has a lower price point offering similar to what Enersys does with the Odyssey brand. While Enersys split their TPPL AGM offerings up it into a high (Extreme) and low (Performance) series, Northstar likewise has a high (Northstar) and low (Northstar Elite) series. Yes, the "Elite" is actually a lower performance spec battery, despite the misleading name. I'm sure that is "buy" design, as potential buyers might get excited about acquiring a Northstar "Elite" battery for a lower price than Northstar's "regular" batteries, and immediately pull the trigger.

That's why looking at the specs is useful, and why I post them... to empower people interested in TPPL AGM batteries to see through the subterfuge. If the price is significantly cheaper, then the battery is likely significantly cheaper to manufacture, and what does that mean in terms of specs, and what do those specs mean in terms of battery longevity and performance. In the comparison above, we see that reported manufacturer weight may not be enough to make sufficient assumptions about battery quality, when there is the possibility that manufacturers may not update specifications between different sales channels of the same battery line. Clearly, more parameters need to be compared than just weight, for the reasons explained and illustrated in detail above.

Everyone loves photos, so here are the mugshots of the notorious gang of six TPPL AGM batteries discussed in this post, arranged below in my subjective order of preference when all factors of battery acquisition and replacement are considered, including performance as determined by specifications and some small construction details as described in previous posts. For example, Northstars have brass posts, but Odyssey Extremes go two better, with tin plated brass terminals for even greater corrosion protection, as well as more elevated posts (since 2012) to gain full circumferential face contact with newer style Ford battery cable clamps. Other deciding factors include battery availability, warranty, accessibility of the manufacturer for advice and customer service, ease of return should the warranty need to be exercised, and review history:





Odyssey Extreme 65-PC1750





Batteries Plus X2Power SLI65AGMDP





Northstar NSB-65AGM





Odyssey Performance 65-760




Northstar Elite ELT-65AGM






Hawker MILPC Group 65


Interstate MTZ-65 AGM:




As you can see when comparing the performance specifications to my subjective order of preference, there seems to be a bit of disconnect between the Hawker being on par with the Odyssey Extreme, tied in every parameter except weight and warranty, yet the Hawker lies at the bottom of the recommendation photo line up. That is simply due to 1) the restricted availability of the Hawker (limited to those with federal government / military purchase account access), 2) the ultra high margins that DOD vendors typically squeeze out of taxpayer dollars (think $600 hammer), and 3) the limited warranty (only 3 years), and the presumed near impossibility to make good on that warranty due to the manner in which the battery was obtained, if used outside of government business.

A seventh (7th) battery, ironically called the Interstate MT7, would have belonged in the list above, but for the fact that the MT7-65 was discontinued within a year or two of having been introduced. There was no point spending time researching the stats of a battery made of unobtanium, but for what it's worth, the MT7, at 770 CCA, was about on par the lower line Odyssey Performance and Northstar Elite series. Interstate named the replacement to the MT7-65 as the MTZ-65. These could very well be the same battery under a revised model name. But the question is, why was the model name changed? Especially so soon after introduction? Was it due to the dismal reviews of the MT7 in Consumer Reports, which can never be erased from the internet, and which will always be looked upon as gospel by some consumers who are not motor heads like forum followers are? Or were there some production changes, or internal differences, that inspired the name change? These questions might be addressed in a future update, and then the MTZ-65 will be added to this list. (Interstate MTZ-65 AGM update added to list on January 28, 2021)

2021 UPDATE: In 2020, Enersys acquired Northstar ... which ironically, was started by the former Chief Technology Officer of Enersys / Hawker, Dr Frank Flemming, who with 3 other former Enersys executives abruptly left Enersys, using the expertise they developed at Enersys to start Northstar with a local investor whose seed capital came from the sale of Contico. A few retirements and a Swedish acquisition later, Northstar has now come full circle, and is back within the fold of Enersys as a parent company, which means that most of the pure lead, very thin plate manufacturing capacity in the United States and England that produced all 7 of the batteries on this list is now owned and operated by Enersys.

 

Thanks for the battery info/research,a little off topic did You ever go with the Denso 270XP flat wire alternator.

 

Bravo! A very thorough and scholarly analysis. How did you come by the CCA, MCA, internal resistance etc etc data? Is that all reported by the manufacturer performing the J537 test?

 

Not yet. I have plans to put a Denso segmented conductor in the lower alternator position. As for the upper alternator, I went with a Leece Neville 230 Amp alternator that was optimized for high output at idle (it's even called an Idle Pro).

One of the self imposed conditions on alternator selection ruled out any product from a boutique internet aftermarket alternator company like DC Power, DB Electric, Mechman, or the like. I wanted Ford OEM parts, of which the Leece Neville is, albeit for a medium duty truck application. The Leece Neville also has a 160mm diameter stator, which is the largest diameter winding available in any T Mount 3 post alternator housing manufactured.

The sheer girth of the Leece Neville affords more of what an alternator really needs, which is the ability to reject heat. More girth, more vents, more cooling, in less compact space. The Leece Neville's vast diameter rivals, if not exceeds, the 1990's era Mitsubishi, which was a monstrous 215 amp alternator used in Ford Ambulance packages of OBS Powerstrokes and E Series of that era. The Achilles heels of the Mitsubishi alternator are four legged. 1) external fan (dangerous for people who spend as much time under the hood as behind the wheel; 2.) only one fan, not two, and therefore no back fan near where the bridge rectifier is located containing all the diodes that get so hot. The Leece Neville as two fans, one in front, one in the rear, both internal, like the 6Gs; 3.) The big Mitsu requires significant carving of the alternator cradle bracket. That bracket is no longer made, and parts are obsolete and discontinued. I wanted to scarf as little as possible to avoid cracking; and, 4.) No hood insulation can be used with the big Mits, due to the external fan shroud and the downward pitch of the hood as it slopes forward. The Leece Neville, despite it's girth, is cleverly nested within the 3 post casting so that it barely nicks the hood insulation.

Still, the flat wire aka hair pin aka segmented conductor alternator is 6 phase, and is more efficient at producing power, even with a smaller diameter. There are actually two different diameters of Denso that come in the 3 bolt T mount Ford case. Both the sizes are available as Ford genuine parts, but the trick is, when configured as Ford parts, they are fitted with more sophisticated, PCM enabled regulators that do not match the simple way the 99-03 charging system is triggered and regulated. The aftermarket alternator vendors who sell their so called special alternators, merely figured out, about 10 years ago, which Denso regulator and connector shell can be retrofitted to work with our older trucks. They are basically taking a stock 2008 Ford segmented conductor alternator rotor, stator, diode plate, and case, and retrofitting a Denso regulator that is simpler than what Ford called for as OEM in PCM controlled alternators of the 2008 model year.

My hold up was locating the Denso part number for that regulator. In the meantime, I put in a replacement small case 6G in the secondary alternator position. I have since found a Denso regulator that I believe will work and matches what the aftermarket has been doing for the last decade, but I haven't acquired or tested it yet. I'm guessing that one of the reasons that DC Power Engineering started making their own front frames out of different colored aluminum billet... was to disguise the fact that the 270XP, and pumped up 370XP, are nothing more than 2008 Ford 6.4L diesel alternators with a different internal regulator.

This knowledge makes a huge difference in the acquisition cost of replacement flat wire Denso type alternators, as it becomes a simple matter of ordering an alternator for a 2008, and retrofitting the correct regulator, for less than half the cost of the fancy high margin high profit multiple middle men supply chain of boutique alternators... without being beholden to the whims of just one vendor in terms of warranty shipping back and forth. Just go to the nearest auto parts store and test and exchange the rotating assembly. Done.

 

I traded two days out of my remaining life expectancy in exchange for the data.

That's about how long it took to find it, and there are still a couple of holes to fill from Northstar.

All info is as reported by the manufacturer, and at the end of the day, for all 6 batteries identified, there are only two actual manufacturers... EnerSys and NorthStar.

What would really be nice is having the ability to independently test the specification claims of the manufacturers, but this requires not just the testing facility, but also a statistically significant quantity of samples to validate the independently derived findings.

That's beyond forum folk. We'll just have to take each manufacturer at their word, and even in doing so, we still find significant differences in the product lines of the same manufacturer.

Interstate does not manufacture batteries, and that is another reason for delaying any report on the discontinued MT7 or the replacement MTZ. Another reason for the model number change could have been related to a switch in private label manufacturer for all or part of the battery build contract. Since there is a TPPL manufacturing facility where both the MT7 and the 65-760 were made (videos show the same facility, but different battery construction technique at the component level), it will take a some time, and a lot of interest, to figure out what the story behind the product that Interstate remarkets. Not worth another two days of my life, especially since there are several better options available that are directly marketed by the actual battery manufacturer.

January 28, 2021 Update: The available data for the Interstate MTZ-65 was added to the list.

 

I got My hands on a new not rebuilt OEM Motorcraft Alternator & only got 20k miles before it gave up,with clean connections no abuse from dead batteries or jump starts using Odyssey batteries,will be watching for Denso update,Thanks for Info.

 

Years ago we had a Enersys rep come in a get us to start using the hawker batteries on our equipment. They had a empty cutaway, not sure if they still do it but the base of the case was reinforced with a zinc lead alloy frame and covered in a rubber liner and the terminals were affixed to the plates with a large solid lead wye. This may be the extra weight shown on the chart. It was told to me this was to meet some mil spec for vibration and impact. Either way they ended up being good solid performers and lasted longer than the trucks did in our fleet.

 

A couple years ago I bought 2x Northstar NSB-65AGM (#3 on the Y2KW57 most desired list) and am very happy with their performance so far. Even during long periods of sitting (months at a time) up by the tree line when the truck is not in use, the batteries hold their charge very well. My plan is to run a direct bury cable out the the cover by the tree line to power a battery maintainer, but life gets in the way...

@Y2KW57 your detail, research and downright expertise still amazes me. You are an incredible asset to this community.

Also, I am curious to see where your alternator journey takes you as well. I bought a "nice" alternator the same time I bought the batteries and upgraded cables, but it will have its day eventually and I will refer back to this thread for the next purchase.

 

So much detail, thanks Y2K, after much less research I opted for the Odessey extreme batteries a few years ago, all I can add is that they have performed flawlessly since fitting. My truck spins over as fast today as it did the day I fitted them & that seemed like twice as fast as the previous day!

 

I started looking for a roll cage for my SUV way back in 2007 when I first installed Odyssey batteries... I became worried that if I held the key in start for a half second longer, the entire wagon would flip over!
The Odysseys were so obviously strong compared to the OEM wet cells they replaced.
Still looking for a roll cage, btw.

 

Great battery info. Your research will save people a lot of time if they are thinking about AGM's. I also have the Odyssey extreme 65-PC1750 batteries and have been very happy with them so far. Battery maintainer on it when it's not in use and with the new alternator and bigger cables, I expect to get many years out of them.

 

Our Northstar batteries have performed equally as well as Our odyssey's.

 

Ford390gashog's observation is something to keep in mind when contemplating which battery to choose among those compared in the list of the original post (recently updated as promised a year and a half ago to now include the available specs provided by Interstate for the MTZ-65 AGM).

And now that Enersys has acquired Northstar (in 2020), it might be easy to assume that all the batteries listed are now the same, as they are now all manufactured by the same parent company. However, just as Ford makes various trim levels of Super Duty, sold at different price points to meet a range of affordability, including or excluding insulation, engines, GVWR capacities, optional equipment... so too, does a battery manufacturer include or exclude different features inside the battery case that we cannot see, but that explain the difference in weight, and price, and brand tier levels, that are often maintained as differentiated despite being under the same ownership.

 

I saw Enersys bought Northstar. They wanted to corner that high end battery market I can only guess.

Out in the real world I wouldn’t expect any noticable performance difference between them. Not prior to the acquisition anyway. Maybe they’ve changed something now.

 

Did the Odyssey part numbers change?