I have a 51 Ford Van - panel, no windows, that was stolen off private property in Idaho, and didn't notice for 2 years. It was in parts (doors off, front off, body off frame - 25yrs ago when I was an ambitious teen and thought I could put back together soon). It had some completed body work to primer on the doors. It was mostly all stacked together in storage. It was stored in a 2-door garage building in a small truck-stop town (half crooks), and they physically opened garage bay door and removed. They caught the guy, and I am going to court tomorrow to witness. He is charged with forgery and grand theft by possession stolen property. I think they also got the guy with a controlled substance charge. So the guy he sold it to, has done some restoration work. I am told I am going to have to bargain with this person - possibly for him to now buy the Van from me. The NADAA values show from: 13,700 low retail, to 26,600 average retail, to 49,700 High retail. So, basically if I just put back together as was, it should be low book 13,700? I'm afraid I'm going to be low-balled by this other owner, and robbed of the possible opportunity value it could have had. I am not a body man, but liked tinkering with old cars. I am also now disabled and don't get around to well. Any opinions on what I should do?

 

Sorry to tell you this, but a pile of parts isn't worth NADA value for a complete running vehicle. If you can show examples of the individual parts with prices, you might recoup some money.
Good luck and keep us posted on how this one turns out.

 

If you hold clear valid title to the vehicle, it is yours. We, on this forum, discuss frequently the importance of obtaining clear title or proof of ownership to any vehicle before doing any work or spending any monies on that vehicle. Big disclaimer, I do not know what Idaho law might be counter to what I write.
Good luck on getting it straightened out.

 

Around here that might get you the frame back, since that's the only part stamped with the VIN. Unless the original thief swears all pieces were obtained from that pile of parts it's gonna be the original posters word against whoever has possession now.

 

Thanks for the info - here is what is was before storage. It had a few high school memories, back in the day you could sit in the school parking lot and get away w/a few things while listening to black in black.

 

Well, the only law training I've ever received was from watching multiple years of Law and Order and reruns of Perry Mason. So I don't really know the law but there is a similar case in California involving a van that was in a '70s movie. I think, but not sure, the people who did work on the van can ask for the detactable items they installed like new trim, wheels, engine and transmission if they have receipts for them. I don't think they can ask to take off the body work and paint though. Again, I don't know for sure.







https://autoweek.com/article/car-lif...s-felony-theft

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-vid...ner-sounds-off

 

Completely agree....have seen this many times...….and even if you put $100k into the vehicle, the "investor" is out of luck.

 

Welcome to the forum, Russel. I'm sorry for your loss. I know first hand how bad it feels to have your building broken into and a whole bunch of your life stolen. It sucks. You came here seeking opinions and advice, and no doubt you'll get some. Some of it may not be as sugar coated as you might like, but it will be the straight scoop from real truck guys, with all due respect.

I'm going to get straight to the point. I don't know where NADA comes up with their numbers, but valuing old cars and trucks is not their forte'. They might be able to track a half a million Taurus sales over 6 months and come up with an average of what people pay for those, but there is not nearly enough sales of old trucks like ours to put a meaningful number on. In no one's wildest imagination are they going to get mid-5-figures for a typical restored 51 Ford panel truck. Not even at Barrett-Jackson. That's nuts. My point here is you can set those numbers aside completely as not relevant.

The value of anything is what someone is wiling to pay for any given item, when neither the buyer nor the seller is under duress to deal. The reality is, if you would have put an ad on craigslist for your panel as a disassembled, stalled project, which by your description is exactly what it was, you'd be hard pressed to get more than a couple grand for it, if that much. Projects sell all the time for pennies on the dollar.

You've admitted you've been tinkering with it off and on for 25 years, and you're lacking the abilities to complete it you may have had in your earlier years. Based on your own words, it sounds unlikely you'd ever do much more to finish it than you've already done. It may be tough to admit, but for your own sake please be honest with yourself. It appears, as sad as this story is, the truck may have found a good home. If you could see your way clear to accept a reasonable settlement (based on an honest, realistic value of the truck at the time of loss, not some pie-in-the-sky idea of future value, or taking advantage of someone else's work) from the current holder of the truck and sign a release of interest for him, that may be the best solution to everyone's satisfaction, and provide the best possible outcome for the truck ever seeing life again. That's my 2c. Best wishes on the outcome.

 

I have to go along with the others are saying about the value of your truck. There was recently a member here, I think, that had a beautiful '48-50 panel that he sold which later came up on a BJ auction. It went for $25K, totally restored. I've bought a few vehicles from people when asked how much they wanted for them would answer, "Well, I've seen vehicles just like this sell on the internet for $25-30K." I always counter with, "Sure, I can make this a $25-30K vehicle after I put $25-30K in parts and another 2000 hours of labor." I ended up getting two for around $500-600, the others I left sitting having the owners hope they improve in value by sitting outside in the elements.

 

"I am told I am going to have to bargain with this person - possibly for him to now buy the Van from me. " If I was the guy that bought the truck from the thief, I would just hand it all back to you. Isn't buying and possessing stolen property a crime too? You have the title. Let him show you a "Bill of Sale". You may have more leverage than you think!

 

My recommendation would be to get legal advice. Who is telling you you have to bargain with the guy? If you have a legal title, the truck may very well still belong to you regardless of what may or may not have been done to it since it went missing.

Just because someone accepts stolen property, doesn't mean that it's theirs. There is a reason why vehicles and other things of value have titles. The old adage that applies here is, "Buyer beware". Anyone who buys a vehicle without a title, runs the risk that someday the legal owner may come looking for his property. I believe you have just located something that belongs to you. I wish you well in getting it back.

...and no I don't feel sorry for the guy that accepted stolen property. He knew he was taking a chance investing time and money into something he didn't really own. He took his chance, probably paid next to nothing for the parts, and now there are some consequences.

Jim

 

I have a feeling, and I could be wrong, that the OP might not be back to react to any of our posts since the answers posted aren't what he was looking to get. If his truck is worth anywhere near $13K in totally dismantled condition the panel truck I have sitting in my garage has to be worth twice that much. I doubt I could find anyone willing to pay that much.

Also, there is usually two sides to every story. The story about the one party breaking into the garage and stealing the truck seems pretty much straight forward if it's ending up in court. The story behind the the guy who bought it probably has more to it. If the guy bought the truck in rough condition as a parts truck and then decided to bring it back he might have gotten a bonded title for it. I have bought many vehicles without titles that were sitting in fields or behind barns as parts trucks. The last '37 Buick I bought didn't have a title but I was able to track down the family who were not the party that sold it to me but that were still registered owners. The car wasn't stolen but legally sold to someone who didn't title in his name, died and the title was lost. The OP said he hadn't noticed the truck gone for over two years, plenty of time to get a bonded title. Basically a bonded title is a insurance policy you take out on a vehicle to insure the vehicle wasn't stolen and after a certain amount of time if no one comes forward the title is put in the present owner's name. Maybe that is why the OP was told he might have to negotiate with the person who has it now. If the OP does come back hopefully he will be willing to give us more information.

 

It sounds like the new owner has a title that is why the thief was charged with Forgery. It doesn't sound like it was sold on a Bonded Title as the original owner would be talking to because he would be talking to the Issuer of the Bond. Each has a case of ownership if the state issued a title to the one that purchased it. It sounds like a Civil Court Case as ownership need to be determined! Good luck and let us know what's happening.

 

I missed the forgery angle. Good point. If the guy purchasing the parts has some sort of legal standing, or he was deceived by a forged document, then I might feel differently about his plight.

Jim

 

I'm interested to see how this plays out. When I worked at a garage ages ago, we'd occasionally get legal salvage titles on towed or repaired vehicles that were abandoned by filing paperwork with the state. But there were restrictions for this, like the shop being owed money, and a minimum length of time needed for the vehicle to qualify as abandoned.

This seems a lot different though. First there was a potentially forged title, which would not be valid relative to the original chain of title, meaning that the OP would probably retain ownership of the vehicle no matter who currently possesses it. So I can't see why the OP would need to do any negotiating whatsoever... after the expected conviction, simply call the police and have the vehicle confiscated as stolen property. Second, I'd think that the party currently in possession of the stolen vehicle with the bonded title would need to negotiate with the bonding company for compensation, since the bond is basically an insurance policy owned by the current possessor, correct???

Purely my opinion, as I have no legal training...