vented ventless heater
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,476
Likes: 224
From: Frequently frozen MN
vented ventless heater
What a deal. I'm in the process of putting a ventless propane heater in my basement. Replacing my 40 year old woodstove.
To do it, I need to extend the gas line. Guy came over to estimate and said -- are you gonna get a permit? He pretty much though that it was a waste of money.
But, a gas line is a pretty big deal, so I emailed the inspector to ask about fees for the line and the heater.
Guess what -- in Minnie, ventless heaters are not approved -- or so he said. I looked up the code standard and it does allow exceptions for units with a vent interlocked to the gas valve. These do exist, but it looks like a real PITA.
Not sure what to do. Could get the gas line approved and just say I have future plans for it. Then put in the heater. Never thought of this when I put a garage unit in -- but I first ran that from a tank -- then got a new regulator right on the wall outside the unit.
Kind of amazing that they sell these things at a lot of places and never bother to say thatthey're in violation of code unless you add a costly vent.
Interested in any opinions and suggestions.
Thanks,
hj
To do it, I need to extend the gas line. Guy came over to estimate and said -- are you gonna get a permit? He pretty much though that it was a waste of money.
But, a gas line is a pretty big deal, so I emailed the inspector to ask about fees for the line and the heater.
Guess what -- in Minnie, ventless heaters are not approved -- or so he said. I looked up the code standard and it does allow exceptions for units with a vent interlocked to the gas valve. These do exist, but it looks like a real PITA.
Not sure what to do. Could get the gas line approved and just say I have future plans for it. Then put in the heater. Never thought of this when I put a garage unit in -- but I first ran that from a tank -- then got a new regulator right on the wall outside the unit.
Kind of amazing that they sell these things at a lot of places and never bother to say thatthey're in violation of code unless you add a costly vent.
Interested in any opinions and suggestions.
Thanks,
hj
Fleet Owner
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 21,253
Likes: 1,656
From: Reynoldsburg, Ohio
That is an interesting conflict of information code-wise. I'd seek input from your home insurance carrier to make sure installing this type heater in any space while its not a code-approved item could affect or void your coverage.
Are there any approved alternative heat sources under consideration for your space?
Are there any approved alternative heat sources under consideration for your space?
Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,388
Likes: 1
I don't mind taking chances on things as needed but gas/propane is no joke. Anything with it should require a little homework and everything should be done 'right'. A garage is one thing but even vented they can cause life threatening issues. Almost predictable that a family gets into trouble overnight due to a blocked vent or a malfunctioning gas heater each year in any given area. Don't play games with anything like that inside your home unless you want to roll the dice on your family waking up dead one day. Might be just me but I'd ditch that heater and sell it to someone who has a use for it and start of fresh with whatever is approved. The simpler the better. Even power vents are a PIA sometimes. Any reason why a regular vented gas/propane heater can't be vented through the flue used for the woodstove?
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 26,007
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From: Brentwood,CA
Ventless heaters are generally not approved, the exception is if you can provide fresh air and seven full air changes a hour. Have you read the numerous issues and dangers with them? The complaints go back 20 plus years https://www.dukefire.com/articles/ar...1815/60120.htm
Super Moderator
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Maine, Virginia
Ventless heaters are no bueno. If the local code says no, likely your insurance will follow suit and for very good reason.
Not long ago I was very interested in installing a gas tankless water heater. After much research I discovered that I can't vent it through my gas furnace stack, it must have it's own which will add lots of extra money to the initial install. I have a brand new Rheem gas furnace and it vents through PVC pipe through the garage attic out the side of the garage wall just under the peak. I'm guessing that the water heater needs metal vent material.
Factoring in all that I figured my break even point to be years down the road.
Not long ago I was very interested in installing a gas tankless water heater. After much research I discovered that I can't vent it through my gas furnace stack, it must have it's own which will add lots of extra money to the initial install. I have a brand new Rheem gas furnace and it vents through PVC pipe through the garage attic out the side of the garage wall just under the peak. I'm guessing that the water heater needs metal vent material.
Factoring in all that I figured my break even point to be years down the road.
More Turbo
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 547
Likes: 11
Ventless heaters are no bueno. If the local code says no, likely your insurance will follow suit and for very good reason.
Not long ago I was very interested in installing a gas tankless water heater. After much research I discovered that I can't vent it through my gas furnace stack, it must have it's own which will add lots of extra money to the initial install. I have a brand new Rheem gas furnace and it vents through PVC pipe through the garage attic out the side of the garage wall just under the peak. I'm guessing that the water heater needs metal vent material.
Factoring in all that I figured my break even point to be years down the road.
Not long ago I was very interested in installing a gas tankless water heater. After much research I discovered that I can't vent it through my gas furnace stack, it must have it's own which will add lots of extra money to the initial install. I have a brand new Rheem gas furnace and it vents through PVC pipe through the garage attic out the side of the garage wall just under the peak. I'm guessing that the water heater needs metal vent material.
Factoring in all that I figured my break even point to be years down the road.
The typical gas water heater runs hotter exhaust and that's probably the reason for the metal vent.
Concerning a non-vented heater that burns any type of fuel; burning any fuel produces carbon monoxide and that is deadly and needs to be properly vented. Every Winter we read a story about a family dying from carbon monoxide poisoning due to a furnace malfunction or someone using an oven to heat a home.
Dennis
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Frequently frozen MN
Well I took the heater back and now I have to find a vented one. Don't seem to be a lot of choices. My basement just gets too bleeping cold. The wood stove was a good deal, but I'm getting too old for the work. (I don't think that pellets are any easier). Plus, the installation would have to be significantly change to meet code.
Would like to get 30,000 btu and a good radiant heat with air circulation as well. The other thing is that we built a raised brick platform for the stove with thin stone walls in back of it. Worked great to keep the stove out of the way and it looked good. The heaters I've found mount on the wall which will work (I think), but then all of the raised platform is pretty much wasted. .The vent free(and code free) stove I was going to put in would have looked decent sitting out on the platform.
Don't really want to tear it out either.
Just kinfd of whining,
hj
Would like to get 30,000 btu and a good radiant heat with air circulation as well. The other thing is that we built a raised brick platform for the stove with thin stone walls in back of it. Worked great to keep the stove out of the way and it looked good. The heaters I've found mount on the wall which will work (I think), but then all of the raised platform is pretty much wasted. .The vent free(and code free) stove I was going to put in would have looked decent sitting out on the platform.
Don't really want to tear it out either.
Just kinfd of whining,
hj
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Fleet Owner
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Brentwood,CA
Highly suggest looking at a mini split heat pump. You can have heat and cool and use it to maintain humidity in the basement.
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Super Moderator
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Maine, Virginia
Pellets really aren't that much work but, there's plenty that can wrong with a pellet stove.
I'm no fan of of heat pumps unless you're in an area that doesn't get real cold like the Northern tier states. A heat pump sounds like your best option at this point.
I'm no fan of of heat pumps unless you're in an area that doesn't get real cold like the Northern tier states. A heat pump sounds like your best option at this point.
Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,388
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Just curious. Where's the main furnace/boiler for the home? We set up a possible future zone off the boiler for our basement but never needed it since the boiler and piping has been keeping the 3 rooms in basement fairly warm all winter. Even the hot air furnace in my sons home does a decent job in the basement. Is there any practical way to add a zone for the basement off your main source?
Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,471
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From: Greenwood In. USA
Just curious, An unvented gas (natural or propane) are equipped with and oxygen depletion sensor/pilot, and are limited to around 30,000 btu. The only code execution i was aware of was installing in a sleeping are but local authority having jurisdiction would rule. You can get unvented fireplaces up to around 40,000 btu. So did the heater you had not have an ODS?
PS You can get a direct vent unit or wall furnace that might fit you needs. Google Empire Comfort Systems
PS You can get a direct vent unit or wall furnace that might fit you needs. Google Empire Comfort Systems
Thread Starter
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,476
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From: Frequently frozen MN
gasman - MN Mechanical code states that they are NOT allowed unless you have some kind of vent rated at so many cfm per 1000 btu. (Kind of negates the vent free part)
Oh yeah, the vent has to be interlocked with the burner.
I doubt that it would ever be an issue where was going to use it, but I probably won't be here that much longer.
Thanks for the tip,
hj
Oh yeah, the vent has to be interlocked with the burner.
I doubt that it would ever be an issue where was going to use it, but I probably won't be here that much longer.
Thanks for the tip,
hj
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