THANK YOU!!! THATS THE INPUT I WAS LOIOKING FOR, thank you for re-opening up the can of worms, for a sec i thought nobody understood my question -- i knew there had to be some sort of upgrade -- mod -- or something -- though i do appreciate everybodies reply, it seemed everybody was not focusing on my question or thought process, and thats my fault for only having 4% of my brain cells

this should almost be a sticky -- not my question, but the quoted reply ---- i knew my wires are old, i knew i had and have to replace them --- i was just thinking if there was a better way than facttory -- and you -- THANK YOU for re-afirming what is concidered correct and what is actually correct

the tester i use is not the best, there are better, more profeessional testers -- but like i said, its never let me down, even when package of 4 boxes came in of the sealed AGM via fed-ex -- first thing i did was test them logged the data in scrap book for future reference, and behold seller sent me 3 bad ones, got immediate refund

when researching things i admit i check price i did with that tester, but i also check reviews -- though not all reviews are true -- and there is always good with bad -- i chose that one, still feel ripped off cause of the making of it, pretty china looking -- but guess i coulda done worse

so I know there is more than one way to test a batterystill would not buy it again, but like i said never let me down yet


but more importantly --- it was the tester that enlightened my train of thought by having Y2KW57 reply so detail -- PDF worthy

 

Y2K, you likely have a broader exposure then most on the 7.3 so my question is to you, do you or back in the day did you see many trucks with the stock output alternator need this mod ?

back when it was trendy and lots of folks were doing it i never saw the need but i live in a dry low corrosive enviroment so maybe just never delt with cable corrosion beyond normal stuff on the post and regular maintence takes care of that.

anyhow, this kit ( and they are or were a forum sponsor ) is a deal considering the quality of parts and workmanship.
Alternator wiring


.

 

my 02 has a 250 amp alternator on it.
and i never had to "add" wires. i simply keep the factory wires and cables in good shape. my batteries are equal both sides because there is no resistance in the cables.
if a cable starts to deteriorate, i replace it.

 

This is a great question, and the answer is that this is one of those situations where the same medicine can solve several issues, even if the medicine was only prescribed to solve one issue.

Back in the day, just like now, many people have observed and reported a dissimilar state of charge between the passenger side battery (more depleted) versus the driver's side battery (less depleted).

This is the issue that the OP was trying to solve in the original post. So I posted a known good solution.

This was not the issue that I was trying to solve when I added the extra wiring. However, in this case, the same medicine solves more than one issue, therefore I benefited from the improved equalization of depletion and charging of the paralleled batteries by adding the wiring, even though the addition of the wiring was actually motivated to solve a different problem. More on that below, following TJC Transport's quote.



I'd like to think I keep my factory wired in good shape also. So good, in fact, that I have never had to replace a factory cable, because in 20 years, none of my factory battery cables have ever deteriorated. The AGM batteries I've had for the last 10 years don't offgas constantly like wet cell liquid lead acid batteries always do, so my original battery cables have not been exposed to corrosive gasses that can wick into and up the wire strands.

Yet the additional cabling still made a measurable difference in parallel battery equalization.

But that isn't why I added the cables.

I added the cables because of the new high amp alternator I installed, which at a 230 amp rating, is less than the 250 amp alternator TJC installed with no wiring modifications. And I think that is the crux of his point.

But it didn't and still doesn't matter to me that other people install high amp alternators without considering the stock wire's capacity to carry over twice the current that the original equipment alternator produces. Wire size ampacity charts are readily available online that provide guidance on well established best practices for matching current, distance, diameter, stranding, jacketing, heat dissipation, spacing, fusing, and other factors for safe, fire free, and effective automotive charge wiring. Yet I didn't even have to consult these charts to know that I needed to upgrade the wiring... because Ford already said I needed to if I install the Leece Neville 230 amp alternator, which is also a Ford factory part for the Low Cab Forward (LCF).

As a dealer installed option, where the Ford instructions state to increase the wiring diameter, and where Ford even made a wiring kit available for this purpose (for the LCF only), or as original equipment built with the LCF truck in production, Ford increased the wire size diameter in order to handle the higher current that the alternator produces. Leece Neville, the alternator manufacturer, emphasizes the same recommendation in bold print all caps. Therefore, it doesn't matter how clean and corrosion free I keep the factory cables. It doesn't matter if I replace the factory cables every time the insulation gets a little road dust on it, nevermind corrosion. If Ford changed the wiring SIZE to accommodate a higher amp alternator's output when the truck was brand new being built on the production floor, then that pretty much establishes the vehicle and the alternator manufacturer's agreed assessment of the inadequacy of the wiring issued with the smaller amp alternators. Who am I to argue? I want all the engineering I paid for with the price of the alternator.

So I upgraded the wiring, leaving the stock wiring in place. And along the way, an issue that I wasn't really trying to solve got solved anyway... that being the uneven depletion and recovery of the paralleled batteries.

 

With 8 vehicles needing batteries, I am so envious
whenever I pass an Amish buggy on the road.
I hate batteries & someday may convert.
In the meantime, great information.
Now to babysit my 2 new 6 volt camper batteries.
Currently getting 8 to 12 years with various East Penn batteries.

 

and by the way, i was not putting down the guys that add wires.
it is actually a good way to ensure the charging system stays in tip top shape.

i was just rambling that by keeping the stock cables in top condition eliminates a lot of issues.

 

A word of caution to 7.3L owners... Pirate4x4Camo's link in the post quoted above is a wiring kit for 6.0L trucks.

Since the wiring kit is already pre custom cut, and since the 6.0L main alternator is on the opposite side of the engine bay than the 7.3L main alternator...this kit, as configured and sold, will not work out very well for 7.3L owners.

Sure, you could recut and recrimp the wires in this $250 ready made kit to kinda sorta make it work, that is, if the individual pieces of wire will fit where they are needed, but why pay $250 for a kit only to cut it up again? That would be the same as building your own wiring kit with locally sourced or root sourced (removing the mark up for a pre completed kit) materials. If still wanting a prepackaged solution, I would recommend calling Ed at FICM Repair, to see if they have also made kits for the 7.3L.

Otherwise, it is easy enough to make up the wiring yourself, as I did. It isn't that I was too cheap to buy a kit... it's just that I could not find any kit from any vendor that met the requirements I believed were important.

For example, I didn't need a big fat 0000 awg gauge cable encased in translucent insulation jacket to show off how thick and meaty and pretty all the copper wire stranding is (as is the case with most car audio battery cables). A duplicate 4 gauge met the chart guidance in combination with leaving the factory cable in place. A 2 awg would double that, so a 1 awg is more than enough, and still leaves room in routing for a more important consideration in battery cables.... protection in a hostile engine bay. An exhaust manifold burning, vibration disturbing, oil and fuel soaking, sharp edge abrading, heat soaked environment. In this case, the insulation package protecting the wire is as important as the wire itself. OEM's provide many examples of a comprehensive wire protection package incorporating several different elements where needed along the cables routing.

When I installed the alternator, I didn't want to wait for internet mail order delivery, so I sourced everything locally. The following photos illustrate a few of the materials and methods I used to build my own kit.




























.A negative cable was shown in process because that's what I happened to be working on during the moment I decided to take a few photos, but the more important to protect positive cable builds followed the same process, only adding the color red, and in the case of the cross radiator wire, also adding a hard plastic spiral protector over the EPDM jacket and under the split loom wrapped with Red Scotch 35. The spiral wound plastic sleeve adds another 1/8" to the jacket, to protect the paralleling cable from shorting against the radiator support cross member in the event of a frontal collision.







.

 

yes, I should have said to call and tell them it is for a 7.3 and they will make it accordingly.


Great write up on making your own.
last time I made some cables for a marine application it was a PITA to round up the good quality components so I know the effort you put into yours

 

dang it, this thread just got better, now i gotta delete the previous PDF file i printed, and re PDF this page again --- some good info, as you can imagine with 26 batteries them be allot of batteris to cable up (24 bats in camper solar panels inverter seperated from the other 2 in 7.3 engine)

got punked when i bought wire on ebay 3 years ago, claimed to be marine gauge, it wasnt, choroded a few on the camper setup -- so learning many lessons cause DIY wiring if done wright, atleast for this many batteries can be cheaper than pre-made

and didnt know about ford giving different cable gauges -- prolly why some folks dont have issues and others do, that and climate -- i never had issue either, untill i drained them with no/start senerios -- then i noticed the drainege via the tester thanks again everybody

 

I'm in this camp. The time and expense to mod the charge system for normal use won't pay back in significantly longer battery life - you just double the cable maintenance needed to be performed, albeit on a less-frequent schedule. In Y2Ks situation, he had cause to "amp" it up, so he did it in his own OCD style as many of us do with other mods. In my case, I found the driver-side battery had a bad connection from the ground post to the engine - this would be the root cause of depleting the passenger side battery quicker. The ground lug on the engine was the culprit, and a lot of cleaning took place to get the connection to 100% again.

I bought a boat at a HUGE discount because while the engine and boat was sound, the electrical was a total wreck. Half the electrical stuff on the boat didn't work, and the other half didn't work consistently. If this was a runabout with not much more than lights, a radio, and a blower, that would not have warranted such a large discount. This is a "pocket cruiser" with fridge, macerator (poo shredder), hot shower, trim tabs, active corrosion protection, microwave, radar, etc.... I had to inspect every electrical connection behind every panel on the boat. The wiring was initially properly installed (to a degree), but they took no precautions to prevent stuff working loose, or from salt air attacking connections. As an example, the macerator crapped out (luckily, while test-pumping clean water), and I did not add bigger or more wire to address the problem - the whole circuit was already rated for the macerator power demands.

Remove, clean, install, protect - and replace components damaged by arcing (breakers and switches). Proper wiring, and proper inspection and maintenance of said wiring will actually go a lot further than more wire.

 

@Y2KW57 and others: I previously welded a battery frame to hold an 8-D deep cycle battery under the floor of the barn doors on my E350 and put the second 7.3L PSD starting battery on it too. (The 8-D is now dead and I am no longer interested in anything more deep cycle than Optima BlueTops -- i.e., I now want fast discharge/quick recharge for the house side of the van with a charging profile similar to the starting batteries so that the oem alternator can handle it without burning up.)

I would like to relocate the starting battery from under the hood to the battery frame so that both starting batteries are located there. This could free up some room for a different air filter box than the oem air filter.

Any wiring or other comments, suggestions or concerns with my plan?

 

Pattern your relocation of your current engine mounted battery to the frame following the Ford 2006 E-350 diesel dual frame mounted battery set up.

Consider using all Ford parts, including the nuts, bolts, hardware, trays, frame mounted charging post, safety cables for the trays, battery covers, etc. There is hidden value in the engineering of Ford's execution of these parts that I notice is missing in aftermarket frame battery set ups. Some of that value is hidden because it addresses the "what if" when things go wrong, and Ford's engineering validation process is more vigorous in terms of liability and safety, over and above the mere task of mounting a battery to the frame.

When wiring, make absolutely certain that the engine block is the least resistant, highest priority ground. You don't want starting currents coursing through the body grounds of your van shell as alternative paths to frame mounted battery negatives, because the PCM is likely grounded to the body shell at the firewall, which is a lower noise ground. If the direct block ground is crusty (like Tugly talked about above), electricity won't bother waiting for you to clean it up... and will find the next least resistant ground. This is why I WANT smaller gauge wires on the body grounds... as Ford originally provides... to not give starting loads a more attractive return to the battery. Block grounds need to be the quickest and clearest path to ground. I would probably not rely entirely on the frame for that quick path, although that isn't to say that the frame is inadequate. I would likely run copper between the starter side of the block directly to the common ground posts that Ford set up on the '06 E-350 frame behind where the batteries are mounted. In fact, Ford may have already done this with their factory wiring. Investigate the diagrams.

 

Perfect. Thank you @Y2KW57 !

I did not know that the 2006 E350 had the exact set up I am planning for my 2002 E350.

 

yea, no brainer, like said learning allot, when i get to that point on wires, will inspect them all -- though going to keep stock alternaiter, i think a few things i really like to is add the 2nd pos to drivers side and the grownd to alt then that ground to driverside like y2k mentioned something to just even out the drainage tad closer together

i've printed it out -- entire post -- and saved it to PDF -- this and my baby 2nd grader education of solar setups think it will be fine --- keeping camper and truck batteries seperate so not going into HDuty alternator -- if the batteries die i can always just disconect one of my battery banks in camper -- then seperate the 24v battery bank back to individual 12v -- then jumper to engine

750w /24volt (1400w 12v) solar panels in total ontop of camper handles the camper -- engine does its thing seperately -- just giving path of least resistance in engine, atleast with wires that are on my 7.3 like Y2k mentioned is something i prolly dont need -- but to calm down my inner brain cells, i think allot of this thread, leaving stock intact -- can help me

i dont go out eveyday and drain my batteries in engine --- and well -- im rambling -- ill shut up now -- when time comes -- i will read this thread via saved PDF file --- im not going to go over-kill on it,

its all good

 

with that said, if my wires are stock, they are old, and YES I know, eventually need replaced as funds allowed -- the LOOM cover tricked me, as I never really tried to diagnose why one battery drained worse than other, I just simply tested them with my meter, making sure that both batteries were still good, or atleast salvageable and could be fixxed,

so even though majority if not everybody was correct -- here are pictures of my battery system (cheapo-batteries) but less than 12months old -- southern climate so summer hurts the most -- I do have a couple real good 29DC *deep cycles) that i can take off solar and put in place at any given time if needed.

so how did i get fooled ? -- well i aint even a backyard mechanic, so i wasnt trying to detail anything, but i knew it was wrong, what was wrong, i had no idea, but assuming i had stock wires -- surely somebody else had this same issue so here the pics



so
1) -- cheapo-batteries -- yes eventually they will be replaced as funds allowed
2) -- passenger side -- if that there is a stock FORD positive terminal -- its still 19 years old (2000 F-350) -- so it too needs replaced as funds allowed
3) with red boot off -- can see clearly wire to starter or wherever -- thicker than wire to driver side -- thus not my imagination, but something i never paid much attention too untill today when i pulled the LOOM off the POS side going behind radiator to Drivers Side.
4) -- Drivers side -- can see diameter difference in ground and positive wires --

all previous replies put together i can use to even this out a bit -- so special thanx again to Y2K -- atleast in my case, the simplest method is to add them wires untill i can go thru with funds and replace wires..

again, i dont know if my setup is stock or something the previous owner did , maybe i shoulda researched that before starting this thread, but reading this thread deffinatly made me check today -- and yes, going thru now , cleaning up terminals, and trickle charging both batteries seperatly as we speak -- it does need new connectors -- thats for sure