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Holley carb issues & possible swap to edelbrock

 
  #16  
Old 05-13-2019, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by baddad457 View Post
As could it happen the way I posted. Nice try, but you've made absolutely no points here. Not sure what your problem is here, but you seem to take issue with everything I post. Did someone pee in your Wheaties again ?
The secondaries flow enough has to keep the fuel bowl clean. Not sure what your issue is. You seem to nitpick at everything I post, "Wally." You pretty much "begged to differ" and then made no points differing from what I said in the first place regarding gas

Do you hold yourself to the same standard? I'm trying to give the OP more clear advice. Gas going stale in a secondary float bowl under that much use just is not going to happen under this much use. YOUR example does nothing to provide an example of this.

Meds? Don't need em. How about you?

Did you write down the last time you were wrong? When is the last time you learned something instead of knowing something?

You a baby boomer by chance?
 
  #17  
Old 05-13-2019, 10:50 PM
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  #18  
Old 05-14-2019, 06:54 AM
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OP: if you want fact based carburetor advice, PM me. With 70 miles at decent speeds daily, the fuel spoilage issue is moot.

Baddad: if you want to understand how a carburetor works, you're welcome to PM me as well. Thank you for asking about my meds. I interpreted that fully as concern for my personal welfare and appreciate your caring. In no way did I interpret your words as a pivot from what could have been a useful, fact based debate.
 
  #19  
Old 05-14-2019, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by the_hetz View Post
OP: if you want fact based carburetor advice, PM me. With 70 miles at decent speeds daily, the fuel spoilage issue is moot.

Baddad: if you want to understand how a carburetor works, you're welcome to PM me as well. Thank you for asking about my meds. I interpreted that fully as concern for my personal welfare and appreciate your caring. In no way did I interpret your words as a pivot from what could have been a useful, fact based debate.
I know how a carb works, but apparently you're not up to speed if you think there's enough fuel flow in the secondary side if they're never used. Buh bye now !
 
  #20  
Old 05-14-2019, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by baddad457 View Post
I know how a carb works, but apparently you're not up to speed if you think there's enough fuel flow in the secondary side if they're never used. Buh bye now !
Holleys idle from the secondary side.. I do not know about edelbrocks but would imagine they do as well. Barring any EXTREMELY wacky and rare emission circuitry that I am unaware of, this is always true on any Holley 4 bbl that has not suffered some ill mod, etc. Any emissions carb I've had from the era still had idle discharge ports in the secondaries and the same basic circuits at hand.

In the name of science, I finally went out and unhooked my secondary diaphragm arm and turned in the float as far as it would go. My plan was to run around the block a few times to see if the bowl would be empty, however within about 30 seconds the fuel was already at the bottom of the sight glass. The idle started stumbling within MINUTES just sitting there idling. You can imagine my amusement when the fuel level dropped this fast.

There is absolutely no reason given in this thread to believe that:
1. The OP's secondaries were not opening
2. His long trip is not enough to cycle the fuel in the secondary bowl even if the secondaries weren't opening
3. The used carb that you had suffered the fate that you think it did.
4. My claims are based in opinion and not fact

If the fuel is going stale in the secondary bowl then it is a symptom caused by another issue (i.e. the orifices are gummed up by contamination further up stream). You have a number of 4 bbl carbs listed in your sig; I challenge you to do the same experiment on them and see how long it takes the fuel to cycle through. Anything short of this is just wishful thinking based on some used carb you bought in the past and speculated with. Your claim is that the fuel will go stale before it goes into the engine. No way, sir. Let's reach some common ground here and teach others appropriately instead of throwing rocks.

Have we at least reached an agreement on the gas? I clarified that it wasn't a day to day crap shoot and that seemed to be refuted but with restating some of what I was getting at. I'll take pics of the 4 closest pumps and post them here in a bit.
 
  #21  
Old 05-15-2019, 12:41 PM
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Ethanol 91 Ethanol 87 Straight 87

Straight 87 Ethanol 87

Ethanol 88 (e15 in this case) Ethanol 87 Straight 91

Ethanol 87 Straight 87

Straight 87 Ethanol 87 Straight 91

"Super" used to be 89 ethanol up until a couple years ago when it disappeared.

The pump with 91 ethanol was straight gas until last summer.

Kind of a PITA if I want 91 with no ethanol.
 
  #22  
Old 05-15-2019, 01:30 PM
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If I may, please allow me to throw in my 2 cents from a bit of a different perspective.................

Definitely you're having some carb related issues and I can appreciate the "I'm tired of rebuilding this thing annually"!

Let me start with this, the leaking diaphragm, yes, it is very likely the fuel is causing this......with few exceptions the additives in the fuel eat these guys up like they are candy....and having lived in California my whole life, I think I have dealt with just about every additive that has been introduced into the fuel over the past 40 years......and the answer IMHO is to purchase an "alcohol resistant" version....they are made and this is what I have used since the late 80's....they typically last about 10+ years. Also check the carb surface side for sealing, if you have a tiny deviation, that will induce a leak, JB weld is excellent for this.....apply a thin coat to the area, then "block sand" it smooth with either a steel plat or glass surface for the sandpaper backing.

Now for the rest...…….

Typically the carb rebuild "kits" are crap- either missing critical parts or the parts don't fit or are of poor quality. What I have done that has worked very well for me is to go to a carb rebuilding shop and ask them to put a "kit" together for me. The cost was around $50 but every part was there, fit correctly and worked!!!! The other issue is many forget to take fine sand paper, laying the carburetor block on it side on a very, very hard flat surface and gently sanding the surface.....if it’s not flat/square/smooth, it's likely slightly warped...and although it looks fine is will develop a fuel or vacume leak and won't function correctly.

If you are comfortable with doing the rebuild yourself or have someone local who is and just need a good kit.... or you want to ship yours to them ...these guys have been around a very, very long time and are very good at what they do (this is where I buy my carb parts from)….. Culver Carburetor Company, 4921 Marine Ave, Lawndale, CA, 310-679-2733 310-679-1616

With regards to carb selection, Holley VS Eddy, the 1st item is to ID the specific CFM rating of the carb you have, which ranges from 390 to 750 cfm, this will also provide some insight. Although the typical online CFM calculator will likely indicate the 600 cfm unit is closest to meet the engine needs, the 390 & 450 cfm units will work very nicely as well with your specific engine....the 750, IMHO as setup from Holley, will need a bit of tuning to address drivability issues because it is a really big carb for that engine. IMHO, although in general the Eddy's work better out of the box and slap it on the engine as compared to Holley, Holley's are much more adaptable for tuning....and this is my personal opinion......as I have never been that big of a fan of the carter carburetor (which is what the Eddy is basically).

So, befor you spend any more time/money, let's 1st ID the carb CFM rating, if that's good then we can go from there.....1st get a good rebuild kit, etc. make sure all the surfaces are flat and then adjustment will be straight forward and pretty much step by step...and the choke, you can either go electric or cable actuated....either works well.
 
  #23  
Old 05-15-2019, 03:03 PM
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Lot of good advice here. One thing that I have against the little 390 carbs is that they are severely overpriced for the features they have. The QFT slayer 450 is a better option IMO.

What you said about Eddy carbs is kind of their downfall in my eyes. It seems that so many people that buy them just want that level of acceptability out of the box and thus their tuning support is lacking.

Have issues with a Holley: people say get an Eddy, they work better out of the box.

Have issues with an Eddy: people say get a Holley, they are more tunable.
 
  #24  
Old 05-18-2019, 07:46 AM
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In my opinion the Eddy's are a "not as good as" copy of the original Carter AFB
 
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Old 05-19-2019, 03:08 AM
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If your Holley has the right diaphragm spring in it you should never feel the secondaries open. Some people think if they don't hear that big roar they aren't working when what they are really hearing is a bog from the plates opening too fast. You can buy a spring kit to taylor it in but I would bet it has the right one in it.
 
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Old 05-19-2019, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by mark a. View Post
If your Holley has the right diaphragm spring in it you should never feel the secondaries open. Some people think if they don't hear that big roar they aren't working when what they are really hearing is a bog from the plates opening too fast. You can buy a spring kit to taylor it in but I would bet it has the right one in it.
This is a matter of opinion. I like to install a lighter spring in a Holley to where I can feel them open a few seconds after I punch the go pedal. That doesn't mean it's not the right spring, but the one I prefer. He may or may not want a carb to do this. On a 360, it probably doesn't even need a secondary side, likely would be happier with a 2 bbl carb.
 
  #27  
Old 05-19-2019, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mark a. View Post
If your Holley has the right diaphragm spring in it you should never feel the secondaries open. Some people think if they don't hear that big roar they aren't working when what they are really hearing is a bog from the plates opening too fast. You can buy a spring kit to taylor it in but I would bet it has the right one in it.
That's right. They should be invisible in operation, and if not you are just feeling the engine recover from a lean spot due to the lack of other circuits in the secondary.

I really like the QFT carbs with the adjustable damping. This in conjunction with the spring kit gives you a lot of tunability.
 
  #28  
Old 06-14-2019, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by baddad457 View Post
As could it happen the way I posted. Nice try, but you've made absolutely no points here. Not sure what your problem is here, but you seem to take issue with everything I post. Did someone pee in your Wheaties again ?
Did you have a chance to experiment with the secondaries to see for yourself?
 
  #29  
Old 06-14-2019, 02:38 PM
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I will speak out on the Edelbrock carbs, I quit running Holleys in 1989, bought my Edel 750 and have never looked back, its been on two different engines and its running right now, been regasketed once. will never go back!! Has never backed fired, flooded or any other non-sense you get with a Holley...I'm done..Please continue..................
 
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Old 06-14-2019, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by robertrpeak View Post
I will speak out on the Edelbrock carbs, I quit running Holleys in 1989, bought my Edel 750 and have never looked back, its been on two different engines and its running right now, been regasketed once. will never go back!! Has never backed fired, flooded or any other non-sense you get with a Holley...I'm done..Please continue..................
None of my Holleys ever have either. Go figure !
 

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