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Driveshaft wont turn

 
  #1  
Old 05-12-2019, 12:52 AM
BstevieG
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Driveshaft wont turn

Hello Everybody!

I have 1994 Ford F150, 4.9L, 6cylinder engine with E4OD transmission, rear wheel drive only. The problem I am having is that the Driveshaft wont turn. But let me give the back story.

At one point in time the driveshaft was turning. But the problem was that when I drove the truck, initially it would drive fine. But midway during me driving it, no matter how much I put my foot on the gas, it didn't go up to speed as it had before. While this was happening, I also heard screeching sounds as if the rear wheels didn't want to turn. I never got out and saw it for myself while someone drove the truck to see if that was really the issue. Or vice versa. So I just assumed it had something to do with either the axle shafts or the differential.

One day I decided to jack up the truck with the jack under the differential housing, started the car and noticed that the rear right wheel was turning, but the left rear wheel wasn't. So I came to the conclusion that, yep, something is wrong with either the differential and/or left side axle shaft.

I took out the axle shafts on both sides, unbolted the differential housing cover, took out the differential and examined it. I specifically looked at the side gear that was splined with the left axle shaft, wondering if the splines had grinded down. But to my surprise, it didn't. I just knew that since the left side wasn't turning, it had to have something to do with the spline on the left axleshaft. But everything looked fine.

Long story short, when I figured that I misdiagnosed the differential, axleshaft and everything else and then thought that maybe it just need new SAE 80W lubricant oil, I put everything back together and started the truck up. After I did this, the drive shaft was not turning. But the crazy part is that I was still able to drive the truck! Even though it was only for the backyard and driveway's length, i still was able to move it. But also, now, the truck wont move at all and the driveshaft is not turning as it once was.

Is there something that I forgot? Did I put everything back together on the differential like I was supposed to? If the driveshaft is not turning, then that also says that the output shaft of the transmission is not turning either right? And if the drive shaft was not turning, how in the world was I still able to drive the truck? Can someone please help me solve this problem? Thank you all in advance!
 
  #2  
Old 05-12-2019, 02:10 AM
nocturnalsuicide
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Parking brake or brakes in general are not operating correctly. . with a open differential and the wheels are in the air, all the torque will be sent to the wheel without the brake issue.
 
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Old 05-12-2019, 07:33 AM
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I'm sorry to say you have a lot of mis-diagnosis going on. First of all, it's perfectly normal for only one tire to turn when both back tires are in the air. If one side has just a little more drag, then that side will stay still and the other side will turn. That's what open differentials do.

And if you had stripped the splines on one side, (which I've never heard of happening), it wouldn't drive at all.

Also there's no way a truck will drive without the driveshaft turning. You might not be able to turn it by hand, but it will turn when you are driving it. So if that's the case you need to figure out why you can't turn it. First of all, I'm assuming the trans is in neutral, both tires are in the air and the parking brake is off. Is the trans stopping it? Not likely because it was working before and you haven't screwed with it. Or the rear end? More likely since you were digging around in there. But disconnecting the rear driveshaft would let you see for sure which end won't turn.

Assuming it is the rear end, it has to either be both brakes (or otherwise the driveshaft would turn and only the tire that doesn't have a dragging brake would turn. Or else the differential has too much drag. Normally I'd say that's extremely unlikely, but since that's what you were last fiddling with it can't be ruled out. Did you set up the differential correctly when you reinstalled it? Differentials (or actually the ring and pinion gears) are pretty touchy about how they are installed. You need to get the correct shims in the correct places, keep the bearing caps correctly oriented, and basically do a whole bunch more than just remove and replace.

Overall it sounds to me like you are in way over your head and probably should take the truck to a shop.
 
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Old 05-12-2019, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by BstevieG View Post

1) One day I decided to jack up the truck with the jack under the differential housing, started the car and noticed that the rear right wheel was turning, but the left rear wheel wasn't. So I came to the conclusion that, yep, something is wrong with either the differential and/or left side axle shaft.

2) Long story short, when I figured that I misdiagnosed the differential, axleshaft and everything else and then thought that maybe it just need new SAE 80W lubricant oil, I put everything back together and started the truck up. After I did this, the drive shaft was not turning. But the crazy part is that I was still able to drive the truck! Even though it was only for the backyard and driveway's length, i still was able to move it. But also, now, the truck wont move at all and the driveshaft is not turning as it once was.

3)Is there something that I forgot? Did I put everything back together on the differential like I was supposed to? If the driveshaft is not turning, then that also says that the output shaft of the transmission is not turning either right? And if the drive shaft was not turning, how in the world was I still able to drive the truck? Can someone please help me solve this problem? Thank you all in advance!
1) With an open differential that is normal for only one tire to turn.

2) If the truck moved the driveshaft had to be turning. The driveshaft connects the transmission to the axle. Are you saying that left rear tire was not turning when you moved the truck? You were dragging the tire when you moved? The left side axle shaft is not turning?

3) I/ We cannot see what you did or didn’t do so its hard to say if you reassembled it correctly. The previous post mentioned that the brake might be too tight on the left side which would explain why it won’t turn. That is a possibility.

My first thought with a squeaking noises when moving is a bad U-joint but without hearing it that is a guess.
 
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Old 05-12-2019, 01:32 PM
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I have somewhat of a good understanding of how differentials work from a theoretical standpoint. I understand what preload is, pinion depth and backlash and realize all those are important. I just haven't been able to put much practice into it. I wanted the actually hands on experience and said whatever happens from me doing this, it'll be a learning experience. Anyway, I am starting to believe that maybe it does have something to do with the brakes. I say this because I do remember on one occasion, while the drums were off the vehicle, that I did press on the brake pedal without realizing that I shouldn't do that with the drums off. Also, when I was putting the drums back on, the pads were extremely close to the drum surface to the point where I had to force the drum on. Maybe thats why the driveshaft isn't turning? The brakes haven't been changed on the truck in a very very long time anyway. What Im thinking is maybe that where i need to start first? And then see what happens after that?
 
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Old 05-12-2019, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by My4Fordtrucks View Post

2) If the truck moved the driveshaft had to be turning. The driveshaft connects the transmission to the axle. Are you saying that left rear tire was not turning when you moved the truck? You were dragging the tire when you moved? The left side axle shaft is not turning?

Well maybe it was turning for quick second once I put it in drive? I wouldn't know because I was in the driving seat getting ready to put it into drive. But before I put it in drive, while it was in park, I looked under the truck and the driveshaft wasn't turning at all. I promise you this. Normally it does turn while it is in park. Thats why Im saying I mustve been driving it while it wasn't turning, because it normally turns as long as the output shaft is turning right?

And Im saying that the left rear tire wasnt turning when I jacked it up aka the left side axle shaft. Yes it seemed to be dragging when I was driving but all these events occurred BEFORE I took out the differential and then put it back in.

Is there anyway I can post videos in here? I have the video on my phone to show you guys.
 
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Old 05-12-2019, 01:46 PM
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Preload, pinion depth and backlash are irrelevant in this conversation. You aren’t setting up the ping and pinion. I “see” where you removed the carrier. Did you not reinstall the shims where the came from and torqued the caps?

If the truck moved then the driveshaft had to turn.

Did you change the star adjustment on the drums? Disk brakes use pads. The linings on a drum brake are called shoes.

Nomenclature is very important so people know what you are talking about so they can give assistance.
 
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Old 05-12-2019, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by BstevieG View Post
Normally it does turn while it is in park.
Nope. Not possible for the driveshaft to turn when in “PARK.” It would be locked in place by the parking pawl inside the transmission.
 
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Old 05-12-2019, 02:13 PM
BstevieG
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Originally Posted by My4Fordtrucks View Post
Preload, pinion depth and backlash are irrelevant in this conversation. You aren’t setting up the ping and pinion. I “see” where you removed the carrier. Did you not reinstall the shims where the came from and torqued the caps?

If the truck moved then the driveshaft had to turn.

Did you change the star adjustment on the drums? Disk brakes use pads. The linings on a drum brake are called shoes.

Nomenclature is very important so people know what you are talking about so they can give assistance.
Yes I reinstalled the shims. The washer the shaped circles (best way I can describe them) that go behind the side gears that the axle shaft must go through the center of both shim and side gear on each side. In other words, it meshes between the surface of the sidegear and the surface of the carrier housing in which the end of the axle shaft goes through.
Bearing spacer is in place on both sides.
Bearings are also in place on both sides.
And also the clips that lock the axleshafts in place are in.
The pin that holds the gears and axle shaft ends in place in the carrier housing is also installed.
Yes I torqued the caps at 70 to 85 ft lbs according to dealer specifications for this Ford Truck.

No I didn't change the star adjustments on the drums.

And I didn't mean pads. I meant shoe brakes. Thanks for correcting that.
 
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Old 05-12-2019, 02:30 PM
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The washer shaped thing behind the spider gear is not the shim. I am referring to the shims between the axle housing and the carrier bearings which are specific to each side. They set the backlash.

Originally Posted by Nothing Special View Post
Overall it sounds to me like you are in way over your head and probably should take the truck to a shop.
Iím starting to agree with this statement. Iím not sure what is going on but you clearly need more help than can be given over a computer.
 
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Old 05-12-2019, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by BstevieG View Post
I promise you this. Normally it does turn while it is in park.
The driveshaft can't rotate in park.
 
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:54 PM
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For my purpose here I am assuming the transmission and differential are completely assembled and connected to the drive shaft, and the car is sitting on relatively-flat ground with the ground having no more than a 30-degree slope in any direction, and the ground is touching no part of the vehicle except the tires.

Originally Posted by BstevieG View Post
Well maybe it was turning for quick second once I put it in drive?
The drive shaft is mechanically engaged with the output yoke of the transmission and the gears in the rear axle. Whenever the net result of the rotation of the rear tires is greater than zero, the drive shaft has to turn. For example:

- Left-rear tire 2MPH forward, right-rear tire 2MPH backward, drive shaft NOT turning

- Left-rear tire 2MPH forward, right-rear tire 1MPH backward, drive shaft turning counter-clockwise from the perspective of facing forward from the rear bumper

- Left-rear tire 2MPH forward, right-rear tire 4MPH backward, drive shaft turning clockwise from the perspective of facing forward from the rear bumper

- Left-rear tire 2MPH forward, right-rear tire 2MPH forward, drive shaft turning counter-clockwise from the perspective of facing forward from the rear bumper

When you put it in drive, before you started moving, the drive shaft was not turning. After you started moving, the drive shaft was turning. One caveat: If there was wheelspin, the driveshaft could be turning while the vehicle is not moving.

Originally Posted by BstevieG View Post
But before I put it in drive, while it was in park, I looked under the truck and the driveshaft wasn't turning at all. I promise you this.
I agree with you on this. In Park sitting still the truck and the drive shaft will not turn.

Originally Posted by BstevieG View Post
Normally it does turn while it is in park.
As noted above, this is not possible. Is it possible that you are talking about the crankshaft? If so, we have a completely different level of understanding that needs to happen here.

Originally Posted by BstevieG View Post
Thats why Im saying I mustve been driving it while it wasn't turning, because it normally turns as long as the output shaft is turning right?
It normally turns when the output shaft is turning, yes. The output shaft will not turn while in park. The output shaft will not turn while the vehicle is stopped.




Originally Posted by BstevieG View Post
And Im saying that the left rear tire wasnt turning when I jacked it up aka the left side axle shaft.
I agree. As mentioned above, when driven by the drive shaft, even the slightest bit of extra drag on one wheel will allow that wheel to stop while the other is moving twice as fast. This is the nature of an open differential.

Originally Posted by BstevieG View Post
Is there anyway I can post videos in here? I have the video on my phone to show you guys.
You can attach it to a post. I'm not sure what the size limit is.




 
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:11 AM
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You need to take this truck to someone that knows how to work on trucks. There is just so much wrong going on here. You have taken apart a differential that was working normally. You are perplexed by the driveshaft not turning with the truck in Park. God knows what happened when you put the diff back together. Please don’t touch the brakes. There are other people on the road that value their lives.

Watch a competent mechanic and ask him to explain what’s going on. I’m sorry, but it sounds like you do not have the necessary basic understanding to work on a street driven vehicle. If this truck will never leave the farm, then disregard what I posted and have at it.
 

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