I just pulled my injectors. Right past the copper washer is a hole about 1/4" diameter where the injector tip goes into, some of them have another 'thing' down in there with a tiny hole in the middle and others just have the 1/4" hole. I've been trying to find photos or a cutaway to figure out what's missing from the ones without that smaller hole, anyone know? It runs like crap and I'm wondering if this might be part of the reason.

 

Only thing I can think of is carbon buildup or something? Should be just a 1/4" hole down there for the tip of the injector to go into. Then, a ways down there it opens up into the precup.

 

Put a shop vac on that hole and suck out whatever is in there. If you can't get it out, use some seafoam liquid to break down the carbon. I once had a terribly stuck injector on cylinder 4 in my van, and i had to use a lot of seafoam to break down the carbon buildup.

 

Just planning ahead, but if you want to read up on how to swap heads in a van without pulling the engine, it is possible: 1988 E250 Van 7.3 IDI Head Gasket Job (without pulling the engine) ? IDI Online

But i doubt you'll need to pull the heads for a built-up injector hole. Fingers crossed that you'll get whatever is clogging it out.

 

I just took a couple photos to post. I've scraped at the 'thing' with a scribe and it feels hard & solid like it's steel. It's about half with and half without. BUT....


...tho I was pretty sure it was steel, after reading your posts and before hitting 'post' on my photos and first sentences above I decided to go be more aggressive and yup, buildup of crud. Thank you both! Maybe this is what 8 years of WMO will do. It was incredibly hard stuff, but once I put more pressure on it crumbled. Poking further down I can feel a layer of crust on the surface of the pre-cups, or whatever the surface is that's straight down from the hole. I've got some cleaning to do.

Another question: 3 of the injectors had been leaking cylinder pressure past the copper washer, 3, 5, & 7, the back three on the passenger side. 7 was the worst, 3 the least. 7 had built up so much stuff around the injector body I had to fight the thing out. Does that part of the motor run hotter or was is just luck of the draw that those leaked, or something else? Doesn't really matter too much, I'm just curious.

And thank you both again, without your "nothing else should be there" I don't know if I would have tried to break it.

 

The ones that allowed blowby were probably work hardened and then at some point taken out and then reinstalled.

They are no longer soft, not conforming to shape and absorbing any debris that is at the seat.

Use new washers when you reinstall the injectors or use a torch to anneal them to a soft state for reuse.

 

Seems odd that someone would have pulled and reinstalled 3 injectors, and I've had this about 8-9 years so it seems unlikely, but can't say it didn't happen.

 

I am just guessing, that's what it usually is. Maybe they never tightened them down to begin with.

 

Had one of these stuck injectors before, instead of using seafoam I just backed er on out and it left the injector nozzle and retainer stuck in the head. Boy it sure was fun to get out...I ended up getting the pintle/nozzle out and use a screwdriver and a hammer to pry the retainer inward enough so I could get a pair of needle nosers on it.

Normally time isn't on my side and I tend to have to fight stuff. But I'll definitely try the seafoam next time!

 

Injector copper washers don't "work harden", that misinformation went around IDI forums years ago. Next time you pull one, see how "work hardened" it is. Soft copper is used in IDI's and some other diesels strictly because it won't harden and conforms to the seat. Crud/blowby around an injector body generally means someone loosened an injector steel line and without noticing, the injector backed off a bit along with the line.

 

Sounds like you found the reason for the poor performance anyway.

 

Hmm..... What you say is intriguing. Now that I think about it, every time I have pulled an injector, it's because I have a new one waiting - with it's accompanying new copper washer.

So, next time I replace one, I'll be sure to test the hardness before and after for comparison and to know - my scientific curiosity is peaqued. Thanks for the different reasoning.

 

I ordered a set of injectors from dieselogic and after some back & forth BS discovered that they only had 7 and it would take a few days for them to get another. I decided to open mine up and see what I see. One of them was super jacked up, a couple others pretty questionable. I got them all cleaned and seemingly working, but have no way to pop test them. I'll try to get them back in tomorrow and see what it does. Two of the injectors that had leaking seals got hot enough to blue the springs, one of them had a stuck pintle that had to be hammered out.

I saw a youtube of a guy using an ultrasonic cleaner with diesel fuel to clean injectors so I tried it, it was doing very little. I switched to using Superclean with the ultrasonic and that worked very well.

Copper can definitely work harden, but I don't know if just being squeezed one time would do it. It's possible that with heat cycles it's being worked little by little and will harden, don't know. But if it does I'd expect them to all leak after a while. I'm planning to get a new set so I'll see about testing the old ones for harness.

 

Rockauto.com has brand new injectors from stanadyne in Italy.

I don't care if I'm right or wrong, no curry favor in the result of your hardness test.. I'm just interested in truth, either way. I don't care, but they're like 36 bucks brand new.

Box says Mexico, but injector body machine stamped 3/18 Italy , last I got.

 

Just to be double clear, if you order new ones.. And the hardness test fails, I would be less for accuracy in knowing.

I don't care to be right, and my feelings won't be hurt no matter any findings. Thanks for doing the leg work on research.