Notices
1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks 1987 - 1996 Ford F-150, F-250, F-350 and larger pickups - including the 1997 heavy-duty F250/F350+ trucks

~2,000 RPM Idle, KOER 63c and 96c Codes

 
  #31  
Old 04-21-2019, 07:01 AM
vjsimone's Avatar
vjsimone
vjsimone is offline
Old-Timer
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Somewhere n North America
Posts: 3,064
vjsimone has a good reputation on FTE.vjsimone has a good reputation on FTE.
Originally Posted by treeguy39040 View Post
(photo 1 of 3) (photo 2 of 3) (close up, photo 3 of 3) (photo 1 of 2) (close up, photo 2 of 2)
yeah, Plates look closed pretty well.

Something else to look over is the Vacuum Canisters, I don't know what styles you may have, but the Coffee Can style tends to rust out over the years and become a vacuum leak. The HVAC system sometimes has the round plastic Ball type.

If you photo the Fender Skirt area on both sides, we could determine what you have.
 
  #32  
Old 04-21-2019, 10:26 AM
treeguy39040
treeguy39040 is offline
New User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bentonia, Mississippi
Posts: 19
treeguy39040 is starting off with a positive reputation.
Beehive Smoker for Vacuum Leaks??

Originally Posted by vjsimone View Post
If you smoke cigars, pull off you Brake Vacuum line at the booster and blow smoke into the intake via this brake line....
Originally Posted by vjsimone View Post
Check your vacuum tree for cracked rubber caps and cracked hoses.

You can use starting fluid, with your air-box connected, spray around all your vacuum hoses, all intake manifold gasket seams and injectors. Listen for a change in Idle.

Usually there are small leaks in the Throttle Body Shaft bushings, so spray around those two spots last.

Injectors can be a source of vacuum leaks as well if not seated properly or if the Injector Seals are not tight.

When you get your new vacuum lines, I would run temporary new lines to the Fuel Pressure Regulator & the MAP sensor. Disconnect the other lines and cap the ports at the Vacuum Tree to eliminate those potential leaks. Then connect the other lines back one at a time and check RPM.
Originally Posted by KubotaOrange76 View Post
Buy a vacuum pump and test each line/sensor individually

throwing new sensors at problem can create confusion, now a-days alot of the new parts are junk out of box. Always test them
Originally Posted by vjsimone View Post
You’ll save on air cleaners this way……

So, when Sandy did this test, his truck would not start. He poked that hole that you saw in his tape and got a lower idle than what he had, 700-800 rpm, I think.

You truck shouldn’t start. So you’re at 1500 rpm, so you have the equivalent of 2 nail holes of vacuum leak somewhere. (Unmetered air)

Leave the tape on and spray some starting fluid around, or blow smoke.
Thanks Everyone for all the tips on practical ways to diagnose my obviously major vacuum leaks--very helpful!! 😀

There is actually some *background info I've not wanted to trouble everyone with but might be helpful. Needless to say, I do not plan on spraying starting fluid around my running engine!

Has anyone here ever used (or heard of using) a behive smoker to check for vacuum leaks (https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/harvest-lane-honey-3-x-6-standard-smoker)? I submitted this ^same question on TSC's website, but it is awaiting moderator approval.

_______________
*Some Background Info
A few months ago before I submitted my original question about this truck not starting (https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post18609824), that problem actually happened when I was trying several "unplug this and that electrical connectors" tests (Read EGR and Air Bypass Valve--one and/or both, not sure of order or combinations. Lol), and seemingly magically the idle MOMENTarily went to ~800 RPM!

I turned it off and restarted it a few times fine, but then all of the sudden it wouldn't start. Spark OK and would FIRE with ether (starting fluid) but would not run...So, I used a short 2x4 to keep the clutch depressed, hooked up my homemade remote starter switch and unhooked the air box hoses to be able to spray starting fluid directly into the throttle bodies.

Then one time, as Murphy's Law dictates, it backfired spraying burning starting fluid all over the air box! 😮 Luckily a neighbor heard my call for help, she had a kitchen fire extinguisher handy and everyone in her family is built like a track star!

Only the air box was destroyed, and I found an OEM replacement on ebay (1992-1996 not 1988, but I can make it work: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ebay.ca/itm/92-96-Ford-F150-250-4-9L-6-Cylinder-Stock-Dual-Air-Box-Cleaner-Intake-Assembly-/123621098431&ved=2ahUKEwi6uLuLw-HhAhUvWN8KHWIxAKEQjjgwAHoECAEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2U0jZj0 z3i3YyfOiVdVHun ).

^Question Submitted to Tractor Supply Company Beehive Smoker; Question is Awaiting Moderator Approval and is not yet Live (https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...tandard-smoker)
I have a vintage 1988 farm truck with all kinds of deteriorating vacuum hoses that need to be methodically diagnosed for leaks (2,000 RPM "idle!") Not willing to "blow cigar smoke around," has anyone heard of using a bee smoker to accomplish this task??
 

Last edited by treeguy39040; 04-21-2019 at 10:33 AM. Reason: Fix broken link because automatic link creation tool broke it.
  #33  
Old 04-21-2019, 10:34 AM
sandymane's Avatar
sandymane
sandymane is online now
Posting Guru
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Houston/Sugar Land
Posts: 2,214
sandymane is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.sandymane is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
I don't see where that would hurt anything. It doesn't hurt the bees. As long as there is no flame why would it hurt? JMHO Sandy BTW I keep a fire extinguisher in my garage ALL the time.

Originally Posted by treeguy39040 View Post
Thanks Everyone, for all the tips on practical ways to diagnose my obviously major vacuum leaks--very helpful!! ��

There is actually some *background info I've not wanted to trouble everyone with but might be helpful. Needless to say, I do not plan on spraying starting fluid around my running engine!

Has anyone here ever used (or heard of using) a behive smoker to check for vacuum leaks (e.g., https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...ndard-smoker)? I submitted this ^same question on TSC's website, but it is awaiting moderator approval.

_______________
*Some Background Info
A few months ago before I submitted my original question about this truck not starting (https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post18609824), that problem actually happened when I was trying several "unplug this and that electrical connectors" tests (Read EGR and Air Bypass Valve--one and/or both, not sure of order or combinations. Lol), and seemingly magically the idle MOMENTarily went to ~800 RPM!

I turned it off and restarted it a few times fine, but then all of the sudden it wouldn't start. Spark OK and would FIRE with ether (starting fluid) but would not run...So, I used a short 2x4 to keep the clutch depressed, hooked up my homemade remote starter switch and unhooked the air box hoses to be able to spray starting fluid directly into the throttle bodies.

Then one time, as Murphy's Law dictates, it backfired spraying burning starting fluid all over the air box! �� Luckily a neighbor heard my call for help, she had a kitchen fire extinguisher handy and everyone in her family is built like a track star!Only the air box was destroyed, and I found an OEM replacement on ebay (1992 not 1988, but I can make it work).

^Question Submitted to Tractor Supply Company Beehive Smoker; Question is Awaiting Moderator Approval and is not yet Live (https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...tandard-smoker)
I have a vintage 1988 farm truck with all kinds of deteriorating vacuum hoses that need to be methodically diagnosed for leaks (2,000 RPM "idle!") Not willing to "blow cigar smoke around," has anyone heard of using a bee smoker to accomplish this task??
 
  #34  
Old 04-21-2019, 12:40 PM
treeguy39040
treeguy39040 is offline
New User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bentonia, Mississippi
Posts: 19
treeguy39040 is starting off with a positive reputation.
Three Canisters


Steel coffee can and cylindrical plastic/steel-lidded canisters.


Auxiliary engine compartment fan notice on steel coffee can mount.


Big hose running from cylindrical plastic/steel-lidded canister to air pump below alternator.


C-clamping coffee can canister's two vacuum lines lowered idle from ~2,000 RPM to...


~1,800 RPM.


Condition of steel lid of cylindrical plastic/steel-lidded canister.


Condition of bottom of coffee can canister.


No canisters are on driver's side.


Plastic rectangular canister mounted between battery and radiator's passenger-side tank.

Originally Posted by vjsimone View Post
yeah, look closed pretty well.

Something else to look over is the Vacuum Canisters, I don't know what styles you may have, but the Coffee Can style tends to rust out over the years and become a vacuum leak. The HVAC system sometimes has the round plastic Ball type.

If you photo the Fender Skirt area on both sides, we could determine what you have.
I see three what appear to me to be vacuum (or compressed air??) canisters. Those three are on the passenger side, no canisters are on the driver's side fender well and I see hide nor hair of any kind of "round plastic Ball type" canister.

There is an all-steel coffee can canister mounted on top of the passenger-side fender well to the rear of some kind of cylindrical plastic canister (with a cripped-on steel lid and a HUGE 1˝"-or-so-dia. hose going to the air pump mounted directly below the alternator). Also mounted between the battery and passenger-side radiator tank there is some kind of plastic rectangular canister with two rotatable round vent-like things on top and two vacuum hoses.

I unbolted the coffee can and cylindrical plastic/steel canisters, and they both appear to be in good shape, certainly not rusted through. However, I was able to C-clamp shut the two "rock hard" vacuum lines on the coffee can, and the idle went down from ~2,000 to ~1,800-1,900 RPM

See photos.
 

Last edited by treeguy39040; 04-21-2019 at 12:45 PM. Reason: ~1,800-1,900 RPM
  #35  
Old 04-21-2019, 01:04 PM
vjsimone's Avatar
vjsimone
vjsimone is offline
Old-Timer
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Somewhere n North America
Posts: 3,064
vjsimone has a good reputation on FTE.vjsimone has a good reputation on FTE.
Originally Posted by treeguy39040 View Post
[b]^Question Submitted to Tractor Supply Company Beehive Smoker;
I have one, but it would need to be powered, you will need some pressure on the smoke to get it in the Intake system.

Any of your Neighbors smoke cigars? Smoke or spray is the only way to check the gaskets, or just replace them. Brake cleaner, throttle body cleaner, etc., less volatile ?

You are going to have to the replace them all vacuum lines or cap all but the 2.
 
  #36  
Old 04-21-2019, 01:07 PM
vjsimone's Avatar
vjsimone
vjsimone is offline
Old-Timer
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Somewhere n North America
Posts: 3,064
vjsimone has a good reputation on FTE.vjsimone has a good reputation on FTE.
Originally Posted by treeguy39040 View Post
I unbolted the coffee can and cylindrical plastic/steel canisters, and they both appear to be in good shape, certainly not rusted through. However, I was able to C-clamp shut the two "rock hard" vacuum lines on the coffee can, and the idle went down from ~2,000 to ~1,800-1,900 RPM
You will find them one leak at a time..... !00 rpm + 100 rpm + 100...…...
 
  #37  
Old 04-21-2019, 01:11 PM
vjsimone's Avatar
vjsimone
vjsimone is offline
Old-Timer
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Somewhere n North America
Posts: 3,064
vjsimone has a good reputation on FTE.vjsimone has a good reputation on FTE.
Originally Posted by treeguy39040 View Post
There is an all-steel coffee can canister mounted on top of the passenger-side fender well to the rear of some kind of cylindrical plastic canister (with a cripped-on steel lid and a HUGE 1˝"-or-so-dia. hose going to the air pump mounted directly below the alternator).

Also mounted between the battery and passenger-side radiator tank there is some kind of plastic rectangular canister with two rotatable round vent-like things on top and two vacuum hoses.

Don't worry about these two for now. You found the one I was speaking of with the 100 rpm leak in the lines.
FYI; there is a check valve in that coffee can, don't blow compressed air in the cans ports.
 
  #38  
Old 04-21-2019, 01:17 PM
subford's Avatar
subford
subford is online now
Post Fiend
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Easton,Ks
Posts: 21,924
subford has much to be proud ofsubford has much to be proud ofsubford has much to be proud ofsubford has much to be proud ofsubford has much to be proud ofsubford has much to be proud ofsubford has much to be proud ofsubford has much to be proud ofsubford has much to be proud ofsubford has much to be proud of
For smoke you can build this:


OR
/
 
  #39  
Old 04-21-2019, 02:32 PM
Conanski's Avatar
Conanski
Conanski is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 26,558
Conanski has a brilliant futureConanski has a brilliant futureConanski has a brilliant futureConanski has a brilliant futureConanski has a brilliant futureConanski has a brilliant futureConanski has a brilliant futureConanski has a brilliant futureConanski has a brilliant futureConanski has a brilliant futureConanski has a brilliant future
1500rpm idle with the throttlebodys taped shut suggests a major air leak not just some cracked vacuum lines, are you double sure both upper and lower intake portions are mounted and sealed correctly? Have you disconnected and plugged the brake booster line?
 
  #40  
Old 04-21-2019, 05:59 PM
Ddaybc's Avatar
Ddaybc
Ddaybc is offline
Elder User
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Grand Forks, B.C.
Posts: 734
Ddaybc is starting off with a positive reputation.
On my truck, 92 F250 7.5, I have a coffee can mounted on the passenger side like you but I also have one mounted on the drivers side inner fender but it is tucked waaayyyy down and under the rad overflow tank and the washer reservoir. I didn't know it was there until I removed my overflow tank/washer fluid reservoir to replace the mounting bracket. Maybe have a look to see if you have one hidden there too?
 
  #41  
Old 04-21-2019, 06:45 PM
timbersteel's Avatar
timbersteel
timbersteel is online now
Postmaster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mexico, Missouri
Posts: 4,182
timbersteel has a good reputation on FTE.timbersteel has a good reputation on FTE.timbersteel has a good reputation on FTE.
If his truck has factory cruise, it should have a vacuum reservoir as Dday stated under the washer/coolant container.
 
  #42  
Old 04-22-2019, 08:36 AM
KubotaOrange76's Avatar
KubotaOrange76
KubotaOrange76 is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Monticello Ga
Posts: 6,104
KubotaOrange76 is a name known to allKubotaOrange76 is a name known to allKubotaOrange76 is a name known to allKubotaOrange76 is a name known to allKubotaOrange76 is a name known to allKubotaOrange76 is a name known to all
there are a handful of ways to check and pinpoint your vacuum leaks, smoke, vacuum pump/tester, capping them/trial and error etc. Good time to go in and replace all the crap brittle/broken plastic lines and not worry about it again.
 
  #43  
Old 04-23-2019, 04:47 PM
midwestbird
midwestbird is offline
Junior User
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 55
midwestbird is starting off with a positive reputation.
Originally Posted by subford View Post
I wish I had seen that video before I purchased a smoke machine on eBay. The smoke machine I bought (
this one this one
) didn't cost too much, and it spared me having to make one, but if you can make one cheaper and get the same result, why not? Plus, it's more satisfying to make a tool than buy one (not that I would know). By the time I got the smoke machine, I had already fixed all my intake vacuum leaks, but it did help me locate an exhaust leak.
 
  #44  
Old 04-23-2019, 06:43 PM
minimalist
minimalist is offline
Junior User
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 86
minimalist is starting off with a positive reputation.
Originally Posted by midwestbird View Post
I wish I had seen that video before I purchased a smoke machine on eBay. The smoke machine I bought (this one) didn't cost too much, and it spared me having to make one, but if you can make one cheaper and get the same result, why not? Plus, it's more satisfying to make a tool than buy one (not that I would know). By the time I got the smoke machine, I had already fixed all my intake vacuum leaks, but it did help me locate an exhaust leak.
Unless you have a soldering iron that is air tight this won't work. Ask me how I know.
 
  #45  
Old 04-23-2019, 07:07 PM
midwestbird
midwestbird is offline
Junior User
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 55
midwestbird is starting off with a positive reputation.
Originally Posted by minimalist View Post
Unless you have a soldering iron that is air tight this won't work. Ask me how I know.
Thanks for the warning, maybe I was better off buying one.
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.