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It's our own bleeping fault

 
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Old 03-27-2019, 10:43 PM
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It's our own bleeping fault

Sometimes I think so anyway. I include myself in this.

Everything is made in China or other low wage country -- it started with Japan (although we talked about quality). Then Korea and China started making things even cheaper. Companies got tired of losing sales to offshore brands so they started moving manufacturing. The tide turned and American manufacturing got relatively small. Now, you can't find much outside of some high end items made here.

Travelling on airlines is cramped and uncomfortable ( not talking security). Some years back, one airline made bigger seats and bragged it up in their ads -- sales were flat or fell and costs were higher. I don't think that they still have those charter flights, but I remember that most winters groups of people would be camped out at the airport waiting for the weather to turn -- because the plane would leave without them if the weather broke and keep the $$. But, they sold well. We went on one once ( during nice weather). EVERY seat was filled.

Everybody hates Wally, and Amazon's star is beginning to fade -- but they get the business.

I think that we have met the enemy and they are us.

hj
 
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:43 AM
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so true.
i try to buy local and made in USA whenever i can. but they are making it harder by the day with the big box stores forcing mom and pops out with cut rate china stuff.
 
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Old 03-28-2019, 10:02 AM
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I've been to all the lower 48 states.Almost all the small towns all look the same.Their main streets where their small business used to be lined up along both sides of the road,more often than not,in old brick buildings,now with over 3/4 of the storefront windows all boarded up.It's a sad tale.Times always change,they've always called it progress.Just what are we progressing too though? Where everything is made so poorly that almost everything we buy now is disposable so they can keep making more junk to sell us just too keep the machine running and the factories producing even more smog? Progress so in order to compete with established business,you'll eventually need billions of dollar's in startup?
They say we're progressing but the truth is,we're declining.The machine is taking over and soon the human will become obsolete.The writing's on the wall.

There are brave warriors out there though,fighting against the machine.Fighting for us all.



If the warriors go extinct,then there will be no more balance at all and it will be the beginning of the end.
 
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Old 03-28-2019, 11:07 AM
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It's not our fault.Both parties can be bought with money and are owned by the ruling class. For really important jobs you need a pedigree. Ordinary people have no representation.
 
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Old 03-29-2019, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ford2go View Post
Sometimes I think so anyway. I include myself in this.

Everything is made in China or other low wage country --
I think that we have met the enemy and they are us.

hj
Well yes that is true----one of my favorite sayings is "after all is said and done----------------more is said than done!" Nothing could be closer to the truth.

Complaining about Chinese junk being all that's available? I say BS as nearly everything I buy these days does NOT come from China. Sure I might spend a bit more than others but knowing I'm NOT adding to the WalMart et a; profits completely offsets that small cost. Same with Amazon---I buy from them because they're ultra convenient but I'm still able to find USA made goods there. BTW I DO NOT use their "prime" service---that's a foolish expenditure of money for virtually no real reward. If you're unable or unwilling to plan ahead of some hyped up urgent need---well maybe you should be penalized with extra cost huh?

We can't complain how crappy things are while still supporting or enabling those we're complaining about. There is ALWAYS an alternative to the easy way out so many say is the only way. Naturally I don't turn a sympathetic ear to the all talk, no action crowd.

Color me old, jaded, cynical and impatient these days---not a lot different from 50 years ago.
 
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Old 03-30-2019, 11:07 AM
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"it's _________ fault"

Originally Posted by JWA View Post
Well yes that is true----one of my favorite sayings is "after all is said and done----------------more is said than done!" Nothing could be closer to the truth.

Complaining about Chinese junk being all that's available? I say BS as nearly everything I buy these days does NOT come from China. Sure I might spend a bit more than others but knowing I'm NOT adding to the WalMart et a; profits completely offsets that small cost. Same with Amazon---I buy from them because they're ultra convenient but I'm still able to find USA made goods there. BTW I DO NOT use their "prime" service---that's a foolish expenditure of money for virtually no real reward. If you're unable or unwilling to plan ahead of some hyped up urgent need---well maybe you should be penalized with extra cost huh?

We can't complain how crappy things are while still supporting or enabling those we're complaining about. There is ALWAYS an alternative to the easy way out so many say is the only way. Naturally I don't turn a sympathetic ear to the all talk, no action crowd.

Color me old, jaded, cynical and impatient these days---not a lot different from 50 years ago.


There's one truth in your pile of BS and that is we don't need China.

But you ignore the truth that the decision to open US markets to Chinese goods was very unpopular. Many people still believe it is wrong to do business with authoritarian regimes. And they saw the harm this would bring to their communities.

Since you're not part of that conversation you're still part of the problem. You choose to ignore the fact that multinational corporations are allowed to import goods made by people who don't have many of the basic human rights we take for granted. And chastise the consumers who buy those goods instead. And that makes you the enabler. And a hypocrite.
 
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Old 03-31-2019, 06:26 AM
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I grew up in Waldo County in Maine or more precisely, the town of Stockton Springs. Our closest city is the town of Belfast, population about 6000 people give or take. Belfast is where the grocery store is, auto parts, most restaurants, car dealers and the old time mom and pop stores that quite literally litter the main street heading to the water front.

The county or the city leaders of Belfast have prevented Walmart from building a store. The residents of the county have to drive 20 or more miles to get to a Walmart in any direction. The county could have allowed Walmart to come in, employ people, give the residents more choices and create a better revenue stream of tax dollars. If the moms and pops are viable, they would survive no matter who comes in.
 
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Old 03-31-2019, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by old farm truck View Post
There's one truth in your pile of BS and that is we don't need China.
Its easily seen you too are capable of contributing piles of BS too huh?

I don't recall saying we do need China---please show me where I made that claim? But what the USA do if the Chinese call in their massive debt owed by us? What if they stop investing so much money here?

I take action rather than be "part of a conversation"............that's right back to the when its all said and done more is said than done. I rarely say anything about supporting only those who sell USA made products, So I guess I am one doing more than talking huh?
 
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Old 03-31-2019, 04:46 PM
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Didn't mean for this to turn into a bench clearing brawl. My only real point is that when we want to pay bottom dollar but get paid top dollar, it can cause problems. I've tried to avoid doing that, but I don't always succeed.

hj
 
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Old 04-01-2019, 04:55 AM
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These sorts of topics bring out strong feelings which isn't a bad thing most times. Asking or posting something doesn't always yield expected results which is just part of being online I suppose.
 
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Old 04-01-2019, 09:45 AM
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Never forget the national security implications of relying on foreign-made goods, and worse, food.
 
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Old 04-02-2019, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Krewat View Post
Never forget the national security implications of relying on foreign-made goods, and worse, food.
Being a professional food guy, I've made this point countless times. So much of our seafood, produce and of course Asian foods comes from overseas and I'm not convinced that the FDA has a great handle on what's coming in.

I have to question as to how many people know how to properly purchase fish and seafood and if they did, would they have made that purchase?

I've purchased food from all over the world and I've round tripped more than one truck load of produce because it was grown in night soil.

I don't want to get off track but my post speaks abut people who want something for as little as possible and are willing to unknowingly risk their health to get it.
 
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Krewat View Post
Never forget the national security implications of relying on foreign-made goods, and worse, food.
Originally Posted by tseekins View Post
I don't want to get off track but my post speaks abut people who want something for as little as possible and are willing to unknowingly risk their health to get it.
When people look only at the lowest price I'm guessing any other concerns the prudent person would consider more important is ignored by those seeking low price only.

Re: national security. I recall a huge governmental outrage back in the 80's that Chrysler who at the time made the majority of US military armored vehicles was contracting with an Egyptian company to supply bearings---that was eventually shot down IIRC. These days with the flood of "off shore" microprocessor chips that could have easily exploited "back doors" added at the point of manufacture for later use by foreign governments.

I don't want to be an alarmist but I'm quite shocked that as of today the USA has NOT been hit with huge power grid hacks. We could be rendered helpless in a second. However such an attack has long been predicted and warned against yet we're still buying from the lowest cost provider who naturally assure us they can't be hacked.
 
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Old 04-03-2019, 09:04 AM
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So I don't usually roam around the site, but for some reason today I did. And just happened across this thread. So I am going to add my thoughts. I hate that we don't produce as many American made products anymore. The quality of items has changed dramatically since when I was a youngster. The fact more is produced overseas also diminishes the amount of jobs here. And I don't even want to get started on so called progress, machines doing what people use to do, or artificial intelligence. I just don't really see that as progress. Sort of like this example, when I was young my dad would drive to town to pay the bills. We would stop at each location, go in, and interact with an actual human being. We would go to the bank and guess what? We actually spoke to a person about what we needed. Nowadays you have auto pay and even more popular is just using your cell phone. If everyone only knew how invasive this is to ones privacy. I will end with an example that I relate to and truly do not understand. I run a small farm compared to others. I raise cattle, and we grow our own hay throughout the summer. Now anyone here in the U.S. knows that we are an agricultural producer. So I truly don't understand why we export our beef to other countries, yet when I go to the grocery store and walk past the meat counter there are packages labeled product of Mexico? Is there a problem with U.S. raised and produced beef? Is it so horrible that we need to import beef from a country we are trying to build a wall against? I'll stop off here with my rant. I just wish the U.S. would worry about being self sufficient first, and the global humanitarian after that.
 
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Old 04-04-2019, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by 00Dave View Post
I just wish the U.S. would worry about being self sufficient first, and the global humanitarian after that.
It seems some products are less expensive to import rather than produce domestically---refined gasoline being one example. With the many EPA regulations required to bring a refinery on-line these days buying it ready to market is in the best interest of the seller. Never mind the pollution we think we're stopping by implementation of all those regulations are still produced and will sooner or later find their way here to the USA. I'm all for having safe and environmentally friendly processing of things but there has to be another way for the USA to work around things being cheaper elsewhere.

I fully agree the country needs to be far, far more self-sufficient but as long as our own government essentially encourages importation of goods this all will continue. But as Ford2Go so well expresses "we" are the biggest problem as we don't demand anything different. By silently letting things remain status quo we get what we have now.

I'm also okay with the USA being humane when we can BUT until every living breathing American citizen including our veterns is living somewhat comfortably or at a level their hard work allows sending trillions of dollars elsewhere eludes me. Slightly off topic but we see a lot of "celebrities" sending huge amounts of money over seas to help others. Not trying to be political or inflammatory but Oprah Winfrey spent tons of money on an African school for young girls----we have no young girls in need of good education here in the USA? And yet she still rails at the disparity of opportunities available here????

And we also allow so many to bash us and our efforts that we don't do enough or quickly enough? GTFO my face! (FWIW I'm thinking about Haiti's problems from a few years back---just musing ya know.)

Perhaps its part of some larger unknown to me plan where people with priorities geared more towards their homeland never have enough disposable income to really help people living legally in my country.
I'd spend 90% of my (extra) money if I knew the help would go towards those here truly in need.

Okay my rant also over---for now.
 

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