I have a 78 f-250 4x4 with what I believe is a Dana 44 axle. The problem is it makes a squeaking or chirping noise after a bout 1-2 miles of driving. the sound frequency goes up with speed and is still present with the clutch in and or out of gear. I thought is was a bearing issue, needed brakes replaced so I did all that and noise is still there. One odd thing I noticed was the spring cup for the hub lock on the drivers side was worn, the lip of the spring retainer was gone so I replaced the spring retainer. When I took the hubs off again, I noticed some wear on the new spring retainer. Any idea of the cause of the wear? Spring looks OK. Any help would be appreciated.

 

Full time or lockins ?

 

Are you still using the original Spicer locking mechanisms then? Or have they by any chance been replaced with aftermarket, or later Ford (same as aftermarket) locking hubs?
Just asking because so many have been swapped out to aftermarket, but kept the original springs installed.

Just in case it's not the lockout mechanism making the noise, you could test the drive shaft by removing it and seeing if the noise remains.

You can also rotate the tires front to rear, because sometimes wheels flex and make squeaking noise. Are you running steel wheels, or aluminum? If steel, do you have hubcaps/wheel covers?

With the wheel bearings, were they replaced, or just re-packed and adjusted? And either way, were they adjusted using the specific factory method?

Paul

 

What Mark said. Forgot to add that!
And if Full-Time, was there ever a Part-Time kit installed?

Paul

 

Are you still using the original Spicer locking mechanisms then? Or have they by any chance been replaced with aftermarket, or later Ford (same as aftermarket) locking hubs?
Just asking because so many have been swapped out to aftermarket, but kept the original springs installed.
I believe they are the original Ford lockers,

Just in case it's not the lockout mechanism making the noise, you could test the drive shaft by removing it and seeing if the noise remains.

Was hopeful I would not need to go that far, I pilled one spindle and it was tough.

You can also rotate the tires front to rear, because sometimes wheels flex and make squeaking noise. Are you running steel wheels, or aluminum? If steel, do you have hubcaps/wheel covers?
Steel wheels, no hub caps

With the wheel bearings, were they replaced, or just re-packed and adjusted? And either way, were they adjusted using the specific factory method?
I used the factory method, I believe. Torqued to 50 ft/lbs, while turning the hub, backed off a quarter turn then set the locking plate and nut

 

I think it is as it came from Ford with part time and locking hubs.

 

Good. Otherwise you would not use the springs anymore.
The stock ***** were a chrome cap with red plastic (now likely faded to pink) **** with the FORD name molded in.
The light duty ones looked just like a Bronco/F150 hub, while the heavy duty ones were either larger in diameter but looked the same, or maybe one other style. The old "external" hub should have gone away with the early '77 High Boy setup I think.

Driveshaft, not axle shaft.
Driveshaft removal is the easiest test of all practically. No more messing with the bearings or spindles. And yes, they're tough to get out! Congratulations on even the one successful removal!

I've seen (heard) many steel wheels squeak over the years. Doesn't happen all the time luckily, but it's not that uncommon either.

Good. Sounds correct. First to 50lbs while turning, back of the quarter-turn, install lock ring with a hole over the pins, and outer locking nut. The outer nut should be a minimum of 70lbs too.
I've seen ranges (even in Ford books) of from 70lbs to 150lbs for the outer locking nut. I use 100lbs as a safe setting, but for many years used 75 as my final torque and never had an issue. Not sure what the 44 on the F250's gets though, in case it's different.
The bottom line is you do need that final torque to pull things tight, and to keep it tight for the duration of it's service until the next re-pack.

But even with all that, if it was the old bearings squeaking and you put them back in, your squeak would not go away necessarily.
I don't think I've personally run into a squeaky bearing actually, but have heard of them and know it could happen. Just that there are other, more likely culprits at this point still.

Good luck.

Paul

 

That usually rules out most transfer case issues, as the NP205 (part time) was pretty reliable and free of oddball issues. Whereas the NP203 (full-time) with some of the cheaper conversion kits could have all sorts of funky trouble later in life.

Back to the front axle shafts though, you said you had a spindle off? Did you check the axle shaft u-joints while you were in there? While they do not make noise when in 2-wheel drive (because they're not spinning) a hub that is locked, or a transfer case that is shifted into 4-wheel drive could cause them to turn and make noise if the u-joints are toast.
The diff won't make that noise in two-wheel, but a transfer case or transmission can, and so can springs and their bushings, ball joints, and any number of other things.

Try this... Spray the front leaf springs down with water from a hose for a minute so that water is in-between all the leaves (just two on each side in your case?) and then drive it.
If the squeak went away, it's just the leaves rubbing on each other. Sorry I forgot to mention that other possibility. Ran into that myself.

Although, leaf squeaks might get more prominent with speed, but they don't change their frequency with speed. Only a spinning part will do that. So ball-joints, leaf springs, frame members and joints, will all sound similar at low or high speed. A wheel, bearing, u-joint etc. will change with speed.

Paul

 

I should add that my leaf spring squeak was annoying as all get out!
I "fixed" it by rigging up some polyethylene rectangles (cut out of a big Clorox bleach bottle) at all contact points between individual leaves. There wasn't as easy access at the time to the Teflon, or poly pads that are everywhere today. So I made my own.
Worked like a charm for a few months at a time, but would eventually just deteriorate as you can imagine.

Paul

 

Yep Paul, new bearings. I can pull that front drive shaft no problem, Just not sure about the wear on one of the spring cups and the condition of the U joints out to the axle stubs. They seem OK, but no grease fittings on them. I would bet they are original.

 

Very possible. But the good news is that if the hubs are indeed unlocking, and the t-case is not accidentally in 4-high, the axle shafts should not be turning. But then again, neither should the driveshaft be turning.
They often spin while driving just due to hydraulic friction of the gear lube, but that's it. If you can spin the driveshaft easily by hand then it's fully unlocked. If that's the case, then it "should not" be the squeak. Even if it's spinning due to friction, it will not fully keep pace with the vehicle speed.
But it's not uncommon for a hub to lock and not unlock. Especially if the spring is suspect.

There should be zero wear on the spring cups under normal conditions. I've personally never seen one with any sign of wear and tear on it, even after hundreds of thousands of miles.
Normally the spring does not spin against either the cup or the inner dog gear. What kind of wear, or damage did you find on the cups? And are the new ones already showing signs of wear? If so, something is wrong and there is likely the source of your squeak too.

Paul

 

I think we may be onto something. One spring cup looked fine. The other had no lip on it.. It looked like a big washer. I replaced that cup with a new one and drove some. Had a bit of a learning curve with the bearing set up procedure and took both hubs apart again. The spring cup that had been replaced already showed signs of wear. there was metal mixed with the axle grease and the edge of the cup was worn with less that 50 miles on it. I am new to 4X4 trucks, I do have a lot of experience with cars. Not sure what that spring does when the wheels are turning. Thinking about it, seems like the spring may not be dropping into the cup and riding the hub. Ever had to replace the spring. Spring looks OK.

 

FYI, the spring "seat" (I think it's called?) sits with the lip away from the spring. Sort of cupping the bearing face, rather than being a cup for the spring to sit into.
I've not often thought of just what moves and when, but I believe it's simply there to protect the spring and the bearing from each other in the situations where that particular piece moves.
For some reason, Ford/Dana decided that they didn't need them on the Dana 60's and I've only seen them on the 44's and 30's.

How did the backside of the spring look?
The spring moves with the hub, but some parts of the bearings can move independently. Obviously the races/cups themselves are stationary, as they're pressed into the bearing hub.
The inner and outer bearings still have an "inner race" that is part of the bearing/cone assembly. Perhaps it's that inner race that is moving? Did your spindles show any sign of brinelling or scoring, or burning? Discolored and/or scratched and/or worn in other words?
It's not exactly a press fit, but it's not supposed to spin freely once the bearings are adjusted either. Free spinning of the inner races of a tapered roller bearing means that either the bearing rollers are catching on the race and causing it to spin, or the spindle and/or race are so worn as to be too loose of a fit.

Seen it happen, but never heard it happen. But that kind of improper action could certainly cause a squeak.
Hate to say it, but even with just the noise it would be worth a deeper look. The fact that you already found wear on an adjacent part means it's definitely time to dig back in there.

Paul

 

OK, the spring cup orientation, the lip is toward the bearing? When I took the hubs apart one had the lip facing the spring, the other was worn away. All the pictures and documentation I have seen were not really clear, but looked like the lip of the spring cup faced the spring.. Please let me know if the correct orientation is the lip of the spring cup facing the bearing.. If so I think we have solved the issue.

 

I experienced the same thing with the diagrams back in the day. All the ones I'd taken out were facing the bearing and I thought that was strange, so looked for a picture. Most were vague at best, but I did find a couple that it seemed to me, were just less-vague enough to depict the lip going over the bearing. So the seat was "cupping" the bearing, rather than the spring.
And in one or two cases, the spring would not fit into the cup anyway. Which, for me at least, just cemented the deal.
Do your springs both fit into the cup if the lip is turned towards the spring?

I can't say I've heard or read a definitive description. But I've been putting cup-over-bearing for almost 50 years now and never had a single issue with either bearing or hub mechanism. Knock on wood!
I wonder if the bearing cage is moving when it's not supposed to? Such as if the rollers were catching on it and causing it to spin under the spring seat. I don't have a set here to compare, but I believe the spring seat is contacting the roller cage. So in theory then, if that's true then the only way for the spring seat to wear would be if either the cage and seat are spinning against each other, or the seat is catching on the cage and causing the seat and spring to spin against each other.

I forgot if you said, but which side of the seat is showing the wear? The side against the spring, or the side against the bearing?

Paul