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Brake troubleshooting question

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Old Mar 9, 2019 | 04:23 PM
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Brake troubleshooting question

77 f250, single piston calipers, 6 cylinder, stick shift

replaced:
brake lines (all hard lines and bought rubber lines)
proportioning valve
Calipers, rotors, pads and hardware
master cylinder
power booster
all three emergency brake lines
drums and shoes with new springs, hardware and wheel cylinders

it it took awhile to bleed the brakes due to a loose master cylinder line but we thought we had it. We used a pump.

adjusted the rear brakes

we did try to push in the pin on the proportioning valve, we loosened the nut pushed it and then tightened it

it was late so we stopped thinking we were good, had good decent brake pedal

get in it today and start it and it’s mushy. Like 5% effective.

Any thoughts on what to try? We are going to re-bleed all 4 corners again. Should it be running while we bleed the brakes?

We we will check all connections too but if anyone has some hints from their experience I’d love to hear it

thanks





 
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Old Mar 9, 2019 | 05:34 PM
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After seeing another thread, we didn’t bench bleed the master cylinder. We’ll take it off, bleed it, reinstall, then bleed the lines again.
 
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Old Mar 9, 2019 | 05:39 PM
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It's common to for the slack or clearance not to be taken up in the rear drums. They are "self-adjusting", but the initial adjustment must be done manually or they will never work. On top of that, if there is excessive clearance between the shoes and drums the pedal will be low and mushy and it will feel like air in the lines.

A good way when bleeding is to first run the adjusters out as far as they will go, till the wheel won't turn. Bleed as normal. When all the bleed screws have been retightened, depress the brake pedal several times to center the shoes and take up any slack in the mechanicals. Then back off the shoe adjusters till each rear wheel will spin, but with a "light drag".
 
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Old Mar 9, 2019 | 06:49 PM
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it's best to bench bleed it but you don't need to take it back off. it will bleed regardless.

If you have a system that's fighting you I use the vaccum pump and have someone push the brakes the old fashioned way. that always seems to do it.
 
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Old Mar 10, 2019 | 12:45 AM
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I had some trouble with not getting fluid to the calipers when I replaced the master, and I solved it by pumping and holding the pedal, and cracking loose the line at the master cylinder, and then quickly tightening it.

Did you let the pin back out on the pressure differential/metering/proportioning valve after bleeding?
 
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Old Mar 10, 2019 | 03:17 AM
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Is that a new type of valve and pin setup? I've never heard of loosening it at the hex fitting. I would think that would simply allow air into the system and not get you what you need.
You should be able to either pull, or push the pin (whichever way yours works) against the spring and hold it in place. Never knew you could loosen and re-tighten to hold it in place.

Just out of curiosity, do you have a pic of your proportioning valve? It's new you said? Is it an aftermarket brass thingy shaped like the original?
I thought those were all "pull type" valves rather than pushing the pin.

Good luck.

Paul
 
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Old Mar 10, 2019 | 06:31 AM
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It is the new brass type. I couldn’t see how to pull it and had read about a type to push so we tried that. Only way to get it to depress was loosen the nut.

We we absolutely could have done that wrong. Any suggestions on how to do it?
 
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Old Mar 10, 2019 | 12:05 PM
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with the one I just put on my son's truck, I pulled the the switch out and installed a plastic pin that came with the proportioning valve and bled it. The pin holds the valve from moving so it doesn't block the lines your not bleeding. Ihave seen the tool for the type your talking about and I believe it pulls it out.
 
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Old Mar 10, 2019 | 03:05 PM
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Yes, I've never seen one from the aftermarket that pushed in. All the ones we've sold over the years like that have been pull-out types.
The tool alans77 is talking about is also for bleeding, but it's for the electrical switch (dash warning light) to keep the shuttle centered.
The spring loaded thingy that you are supposed to pull out (the push type were only factory on the heavier 250's and 350's I believe) are a "delay valve" that holds off pressure from getting to the front brakes for just a moment while the rears not only have time to perhaps catch up, due to needing more travel to the friction surfaces, but also to stabilize the vehicle during braking maneuvers. Think along the lines of trailer brakes being used to stabilize a heavy towed load by applying them first, before pushing the main brake pedal. Same concept to keep the rear from fishtailing.

But that same feature also has the possibility of limiting flow to the front brakes when bleeding. Hence the instructions to pull (or push) the valve pin.
The reason I prefer manually adjustable valves now, is that the aftermarket brass ones were a pain in the butt. The generic ones never had the stock size threads in them, so adapters were always needed. And the delay valves were prone to leaking. Often!
If the combination valve was made for a specific vehicle, then the fittings should be fine. But the leaking valve was still a possibility.

Paul
 
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