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Forensics of my 2003 Ford Motorcraft Remanufactured Motor

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6.0L Power Stroke Diesel 2003 - 2007 F250, F350 pickup and F350+ Cab Chassis, 2003 - 2005 Excursion and 2003 - 2009 van

Forensics of my 2003 Ford Motorcraft Remanufactured Motor

 
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Old 02-10-2019, 11:05 AM
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Forensics of my 2003 Ford Motorcraft Remanufactured Motor

I'm posting this on FTE first as an unlisted link, so it's not public on YouTube as yet.

I'm still unsure about including my background. It's not something I eagerly share, but in this case the situation is so outrageous (to me and people I worked with) that I think I need to state a reference rather then a nut in a home garage. Nuts may still be applicable. If anything thinks its excessive, or finds fault with items in the video, please publicly state it before this goes live on YT.


 
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Old 02-10-2019, 12:28 PM
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WoW.... The angry face just is not enough... Multiplied times a thousand... The message needs to get out: Ford Remans are JUNK! I highly doubt you got the one bad engine, no they're getting paid per piece to throw these together -- only thing I can think of as to why there is so much wrong....


Good video Jack! An "executive summary" version needs to go viral though...
Scott
 
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Old 02-10-2019, 01:23 PM
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I was impressed Jack.
 
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Old 02-10-2019, 01:26 PM
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Outstanding video with exceptional detail. The type of quality control shown explains why I had 1 OEM, and 2 Ford reman 3.8 engines go bad within 80k miles, all replaced under Ford warranty. Sold car after third engine as I lost all confidence in Ford reman engines.
 
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Old 02-10-2019, 01:39 PM
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I still have my failed 2003 Ford remanufactured motor, it's sitting on blocks. When I tear into it, I too will share some photos and info. It has less than 80,000 mi. on it, either failed lifter or cam.
 
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Old 02-10-2019, 02:04 PM
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Oh My...….
 
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Old 02-10-2019, 06:04 PM
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Jack- All I can say is that is incredible to have so many things so wrong within one motor. Video was well presented( just like all your others ). I think it is wise to include your credentials in the video as you did so no one can just brush your ides as some "garage hobbyist" who thinks he knows it all. Would love to chat with you someday as motors/machining have always fascinated me and have been a hobby of mine from high school and eventually led me into the Tool and Die trade as well as the Millwrighting trade( now on my 32nd year). They are wanting behind a desk and it is driving me crazy.

Looking at the block machining marks almost looks like someone had an indexable carbide insert not seated properly ever so slightly on the multi tooth flycutter. I know this from experience in the shop myself.

The lack of cleanliness and basic machining practices( square, flat and parallel ) stuns me.

Please keep us posted.

Rob
 
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Old 02-10-2019, 06:23 PM
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Very good Jack. I made my sonsit and watch it. First words out of his mouth was how much Ford's remans suck.
 
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Old 02-10-2019, 07:40 PM
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Wow, I can hear that clearly. Thumping sound. Not piston slapping sound.

... Had to take off in the middle of the video. Finally finished it. Thanks Jack for the wonderful video. I am sorry to see that. I even think that maybe Ford didn't rebuild it. They run it, it appears to produce good torque, they check compression, not much vibration. So that means it checks out. They clean it up and send it out for resale. But who know, I am guessing. The reason is that it's just hard to believe, or in your word, "travesty" to have so many issue in a rebuilt engine like that. A bolt in the oil valley? Several deep score marks on the camshaft? They rebuild it and sell for that much of money and put that kind of parts in there? I think they should refund you, I don't care how many miles or years. It just seem right.
 
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Old 02-10-2019, 10:57 PM
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Jack another great video. As you know we share similar work history and I really think this video needs to be on FB. I think that maybe your engine takes first place in the what can we do wrong and still sell it category. Reminds me of a Cummins 335 that I ran for over 50K when a main started pounding and upon inspection we found someone had wrapped a bad main journal with leather belting and sold it as a GOOD used engine. Again post the video.
 
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:35 AM
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Excellent video, as expected. I know I mentioned it before, and asked are you sure Ford rebuilt that engine or did the kids at Voc-Tech but I'm wondering now if Ford in 2010-2011 changed the rebuild practices. I have a .pdf file From Ford that originally came out in 2011, revised in 2012 and still distributed upto around 2014? that mentions procedures were phased in around 2010 (specifically spray welding bores). Maybe they changed their whole process by then and you got the last of the "crappy" rebuilds? Also the Identification pamphlet lists rebuild block tag #s to identify rebuilds (for ex: DG 042 AC - AE). I haven't seen any number on any of your tags or receipt. You think they would have on the receipt your rebuilt long block Identification number for warranty purposes, right? Maybe this Tag# system was also new for 2010.
I'm going to attach a few pages for you to view. If I could figure out to attach a .pdf I would. Also take note of the finish of the deck surface on a short block that they make a point of telling you it is an acceptable finish. It sure looks like it was media blasted to me.


Acceptable surface Ford's standard
 
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:58 AM
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Thanks guys for your comments and support. I’m sitting here this morning thinking about changes and another voice over, I do that with every vid.


Scott, not sure I should call this Pandora or my FUBAR motor.


Rob,

I am still shell shocked over every thing I found, and the manner I did this motor was totally wrong. Find something, fix it, then move on. It should have been a full teardown from the start. But each time it was OK, there can’t be anything else, there just can’t be. The crank issue I didn’t think of until I’m about to drop the heads on.

My machine shop hands-on experiences are decades past, while getting my degree and my initial career working in the graphite fiber products industry. But I’ve interacted since then. I loved working on that equipment.

For ten years while managing the person I reported to achieved a masters from MIT, and for 10 years my reviews always had in them “Jack needs to restrain himself to being at his desk”, but it never caused a reduction in any area. Many of us have a hard time behind the desk, we need to “do” things. But I had a unique situation and philosophy about being hands on. My last engineer who reported to me was top of his class as Stevens IT and had a masters. With fieldwork he got dirtier then I did crawling under busses and truck to the point I felt bad with me saying I’ll do that Zak.

That block has a weird trait when I was restoring the decks by hand (sandpaper) and checking Ra/Rz, the second cylinders in, 3 & 4, had the worst deep scratches. It was like there was either a fixture issue or a harmonic of the block itself. But maybe they did machine the pass side, then decided it has to get media blasted again. This entire motor allows for so much WTF speculation. One of the heads display some chatter too, I believe with a CBN cutter.

The Zebra stripes from the machining appears to be a trait of the technique used both seen on OE and their aftermarket blocks, the area around cylinder 8 more pronounced. But there is a stark contrast on both ends of that deck to what was achieved.


Bill, yep it keeps on giving.


Namnguye, the thumping was the last straw, but the ticking was the long term sound, and you can barely here it when I have the iPhone stuffed almost under the degas bottle in the beginning. At this point I think it was excessive clearance in the valve train that a longer pushrod would have addressed, and prevalent when the oil was hot and thin. But that’s a SWAG.


Jetjockey99, Thanks, FB isn’t a place I go anymore, although I tried to. I really thought I’d be away from all this kind of stuff going with a dealer part.



Pete,

Thank you for your comments. PDFs are attachments that can be added under the “Advanced” tab, then the paper clip icon for attachments, second to the last symbol in the menu bar.

This was a 2010 install and I knew of the changeover, I believe it went from a Blue Diamond collaboration to the CAT contract and when I was told this I also gave me pause at the dealership.

I agree that the corrosion/erosion or gasket indents are not a problem as they state. In this video I should have included a chart that I have in the deck or head refinishing video, grit vs Ra. The examples in the brochure look like blasted, not machine decked.

Glad to see your documentation shows a re-machined cam, unfortunately. It wasn't what I remember from mine, and not what I would ever want.

The video I mentioned was from CATs facility, also showing the plasma welding. All the traits shown in that video seem to be this motor, built 5/20/2010.


There is a video out there about Powerstroke plasma welding failure.



YT also has another Ford reman video which shows both gas and diesel motors, and most of the details show A.E.R being the rebuilder, and a much more professional location. So it's had to figure out what is going on with all this.







The invoice only shows a 3C3Z-6007-AARM part number. At the beginning of the video I do show the motor serial number located on the valve cover tag, which is 367607, and that number I showed is also etched into the blocks identification pad. I’ve thought about using paint stripper to remove the paint and find past IDs and the other numeration in that area. I repainted all of the block, first with POR-15, then their etching primer, then normal engine paint. It's been curing for 1.5 years to a few months now.


So stalled again, trying to decided to continue with the crankshaft or tear it back down and address. My experience was a crank grinder used the old journal as the template and go 10, 20, .... under, these were ground 0.010" under so there is room. Maybe the new CNC equipment doesn't and targets the design throw. I don't want to invest another $2k for a factory ground reman crank towards this motor, regrinding should be a tenth of the cost if it can be done properly. Or just leave it ..... I wouldn't on a HiPo.

I’ll attach the things I’ve mentioned.





 
  #13  
Old 02-11-2019, 09:58 AM
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Been looking forward to this!
 
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Old 02-11-2019, 10:39 AM
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I'm a research guy, I have no timetable...... I was going to wait a little longer, but some were contemplating a Ford reman. They shouldn't make that mistake too.

Starting to finish up the block and head lapping vids as I type.
 
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Old 02-11-2019, 04:05 PM
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Just went live on YouTube....
 

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