Air Bags, WDH...Which order?? Fix my squat
#16
#17
The looks of the OP's truck is deceiving because of his leveling kit. If the truck originally came with a bit of a nose-down rake, hitching the trailer and setting up the WDH would result in a totally level truck. However, with the OP's front end being leveled (lifted) and the rear likely stock, any squat-look in the rear will be amplified by the front always riding higher.
I had the same "look" on my F150. Per the scale, I was dialed in. By the look, my rear was squatting. This was only due to the 1.5" leveling kit that was on the front.
#18
The looks of the OP's truck is deceiving because of his leveling kit. If the truck originally came with a bit of a nose-down rake, hitching the trailer and setting up the WDH would result in a totally level truck. However, with the OP's front end being leveled (lifted) and the rear likely stock, any squat-look in the rear will be amplified by the front always riding higher.
I had the same "look" on my F150. Per the scale, I was dialed in. By the look, my rear was squatting. This was only due to the 1.5" leveling kit that was on the front.
I had the same "look" on my F150. Per the scale, I was dialed in. By the look, my rear was squatting. This was only due to the 1.5" leveling kit that was on the front.
Air bags will help if you are hitting the bump stops often. If you try to level your truck back to its unloaded height it's going to ride like crap and your WDH will be useless. I only run mine at 15- 20lb which sets my truck up about a half inch just to help with our crap MI roads. You have to set your WDH after the airbags because they work off the compression in your suspension which changes the hitch geometry, so if you take some away with the bags you are reducing their effectiveness. Best way is to do it on the scale, being leveled and with bags looks will be skewed.
Please tell me you have re-aimed your headlights after the level and before towing.
#19
Exactly, if the truck was not leveled the sag would be hardly noticeable, Factory rake is there for a reason even if people hate it.
Air bags will help if you are hitting the bump stops often. If you try to level your truck back to its unloaded height it's going to ride like crap and your WDH will be useless. I only run mine at 15- 20lb which sets my truck up about a half inch just to help with our crap MI roads. You have to set your WDH after the airbags because they work off the compression in your suspension which changes the hitch geometry, so if you take some away with the bags you are reducing their effectiveness. Best way is to do it on the scale, being leveled and with bags looks will be skewed.
Please tell me you have re-aimed your headlights after the level and before towing.
Air bags will help if you are hitting the bump stops often. If you try to level your truck back to its unloaded height it's going to ride like crap and your WDH will be useless. I only run mine at 15- 20lb which sets my truck up about a half inch just to help with our crap MI roads. You have to set your WDH after the airbags because they work off the compression in your suspension which changes the hitch geometry, so if you take some away with the bags you are reducing their effectiveness. Best way is to do it on the scale, being leveled and with bags looks will be skewed.
Please tell me you have re-aimed your headlights after the level and before towing.
I understand the need for factory rake and do know that this leveling kit is making my issue worse. I only tow the trailer about once a month so I can live with it if I get it all worked out. And yes I re-aimed my headlights the same night I got the level installed. Will do so again when towing if needed. I don't wanna be that guy lol
#20
I understand the need for factory rake and do know that this leveling kit is making my issue worse. I only tow the trailer about once a month so I can live with it if I get it all worked out. And yes I re-aimed my headlights the same night I got the level installed. Will do so again when towing if needed. I don't wanna be that guy lol
#21
I may be wrong, but I think Tundra's have adjustments you can make on the fly for this situation. I wish all trucks had auto adjusting or at least manually adjusting headlights from in the cab.
#22
You need a proper set of bars first.
Proper set up will get you back to original height before tongue weight was added.
Most trailer wd people do not set up hitch right and do not put enough tension in bars.
Air bags are for leveling weight you cannot transfer to the front axle.
I have firestone bags on 2 trucks. 1st gen tundra with 1500lbs contractor cap and tools. 35lbs.
Excursion stock rear suspension. 1000lbs tongue weight and bars done up perfectly level. 10lbs air.
Just so they are not flat.
If you don’t have bars yet. Highly recommend Reese straight line cam type. You need the right bars. They make about 4 different weights.
Most trailer wd people do not set up hitch right and do not put enough tension in bars.
Air bags are for leveling weight you cannot transfer to the front axle.
I have firestone bags on 2 trucks. 1st gen tundra with 1500lbs contractor cap and tools. 35lbs.
Excursion stock rear suspension. 1000lbs tongue weight and bars done up perfectly level. 10lbs air.
Just so they are not flat.
If you don’t have bars yet. Highly recommend Reese straight line cam type. You need the right bars. They make about 4 different weights.
#23
Proper set up will get you back to original height before tongue weight was added.
Most trailer wd people do not set up hitch right and do not put enough tension in bars.
Air bags are for leveling weight you cannot transfer to the front axle.
I have firestone bags on 2 trucks. 1st gen tundra with 1500lbs contractor cap and tools. 35lbs.
Excursion stock rear suspension. 1000lbs tongue weight and bars done up perfectly level. 10lbs air.
Just so they are not flat.
If you don’t have bars yet. Highly recommend Reese straight line cam type. You need the right bars. They make about 4 different weights.
Most trailer wd people do not set up hitch right and do not put enough tension in bars.
Air bags are for leveling weight you cannot transfer to the front axle.
I have firestone bags on 2 trucks. 1st gen tundra with 1500lbs contractor cap and tools. 35lbs.
Excursion stock rear suspension. 1000lbs tongue weight and bars done up perfectly level. 10lbs air.
Just so they are not flat.
If you don’t have bars yet. Highly recommend Reese straight line cam type. You need the right bars. They make about 4 different weights.
But what im hearing y’all say is the airbags aren’t going to help much at all? I think I can get the truck pretty level with the bars installed.
I was convinced the air bags would help my ride and absorb big bumps. My family gets tired of being tossed around which is why I upgraded trucks. Maybe the 3/4 ton will be a big enough difference maker to skip the air bags? I’ve got money set aside for the bags but don’t want to waste it on something that won’t have much effect.
#24
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I was convinced the air bags would help my ride and absorb big bumps. My family gets tired of being tossed around which is why I upgraded trucks. Maybe the 3/4 ton will be a big enough difference maker to skip the air bags? I’ve got money set aside for the bags but don’t want to waste it on something that won’t have much effect.
It's possible that a different set of shocks are in order rather than air bags. I put the Rancho 9000XL shocks on my F-350 and they helped quite a bit over the OEM shocks. As with the WDH the 9000XL shocks will need to be dialed in to suit you. I recommend starting at 5 front and 5 rear. I tried a lower setting in the front and that seems to make the truck more susceptible to bump steer. I have the rear set at either 8 or 9. I keep intending to lower it to 5 for around town driving but keep forgetting. It's a little rough but not bad.
#25
I do have a WDH setup. I had to order a new shank to accommodate my taller truck. I should be able to go test it out this weekend.
But what im hearing y’all say is the airbags aren’t going to help much at all? I think I can get the truck pretty level with the bars installed.
I was convinced the air bags would help my ride and absorb big bumps. My family gets tired of being tossed around which is why I upgraded trucks. Maybe the 3/4 ton will be a big enough difference maker to skip the air bags? I’ve got money set aside for the bags but don’t want to waste it on something that won’t have much effect.
So, that's one situation where airbags with a TT was justified, but it simply doesn't exist with 2017 and newer. A fifth wheel with high pin weight could require bags, but it'd have to be a toy hauler or a monster. Truck campers almost certainly need air bags to level the rear of the truck when loaded.
Make sure your spring bars are rated for at least 1000 pounds (mine are 2000 pound bars) and set them according to the manufacturer's instructions. I can tell you that measuring the front and rear bumper before and after isn't really going to help you. These trucks just don't give that much. If, while you are driving down the highway, you feel like the trailer is not following smoothly behind the truck in the curves, you are probably too tight. Go ahead and back off one link. You'll be surprised at the difference one link will make.
#26
I installed airbags on my 2012 F250 CCSB 6.2L simply because that year truck had a known issued with sag under a light load. There was a TSB issued to correct the situation that entailed changing the blocks on the rear axle, along with the drive shaft and other parts - all at the owner's expense. It was much more economical to simply install airbags and preload the suspension before setting the WDH bars.
So, that's one situation where airbags with a TT was justified, but it simply doesn't exist with 2017 and newer. A fifth wheel with high pin weight could require bags, but it'd have to be a toy hauler or a monster. Truck campers almost certainly need air bags to level the rear of the truck when loaded.
Make sure your spring bars are rated for at least 1000 pounds (mine are 2000 pound bars) and set them according to the manufacturer's instructions. I can tell you that measuring the front and rear bumper before and after isn't really going to help you. These trucks just don't give that much. If, while you are driving down the highway, you feel like the trailer is not following smoothly behind the truck in the curves, you are probably too tight. Go ahead and back off one link. You'll be surprised at the difference one link will make.
So, that's one situation where airbags with a TT was justified, but it simply doesn't exist with 2017 and newer. A fifth wheel with high pin weight could require bags, but it'd have to be a toy hauler or a monster. Truck campers almost certainly need air bags to level the rear of the truck when loaded.
Make sure your spring bars are rated for at least 1000 pounds (mine are 2000 pound bars) and set them according to the manufacturer's instructions. I can tell you that measuring the front and rear bumper before and after isn't really going to help you. These trucks just don't give that much. If, while you are driving down the highway, you feel like the trailer is not following smoothly behind the truck in the curves, you are probably too tight. Go ahead and back off one link. You'll be surprised at the difference one link will make.
Can't thank everyone enough for their input on this subject. Just trying to keep my family safe. I'll double check the rating on my setup this weekend and take the travel trailer out for a spin (if it ever stops raining!).
#27
The misinformation in this thread borders on dangerous.
A weight distribution hitch should never on its own return a trucks rear end to it no load position. Doing so would remove traction from the rear end witch would increase stopping distances and increase the likelihood of loosing control during emergency maneuvers.
A weight distribution hitch is only to return weight to the front axle that is lost when hitching a trailer, typically 1/4 of the tongue weight can be removed from the front and it would now be carried by the rear in addition the the hitch weight.
Your tow vehicle should still squat in the rear with weight hitch properly adjusted, usually 1-3 inches. Air bags help restore that stance without redistributing weight and reduce bounce by stiffing the suspension.
If you don't believe me, scale your setup.
A weight distribution hitch should never on its own return a trucks rear end to it no load position. Doing so would remove traction from the rear end witch would increase stopping distances and increase the likelihood of loosing control during emergency maneuvers.
A weight distribution hitch is only to return weight to the front axle that is lost when hitching a trailer, typically 1/4 of the tongue weight can be removed from the front and it would now be carried by the rear in addition the the hitch weight.
Your tow vehicle should still squat in the rear with weight hitch properly adjusted, usually 1-3 inches. Air bags help restore that stance without redistributing weight and reduce bounce by stiffing the suspension.
If you don't believe me, scale your setup.
#28
The misinformation in this thread borders on dangerous.
A weight distribution hitch should never on its own return a trucks rear end to it no load position. Doing so would remove traction from the rear end witch would increase stopping distances and increase the likelihood of loosing control during emergency maneuvers.
A weight distribution hitch is only to return weight to the front axle that is lost when hitching a trailer, typically 1/4 of the tongue weight can be removed from the front and it would now be carried by the rear in addition the the hitch weight.
Your tow vehicle should still squat in the rear with weight hitch properly adjusted, usually 1-3 inches. Air bags help restore that stance without redistributing weight and reduce bounce by stiffing the suspension.
If you don't believe me, scale your setup.
A weight distribution hitch should never on its own return a trucks rear end to it no load position. Doing so would remove traction from the rear end witch would increase stopping distances and increase the likelihood of loosing control during emergency maneuvers.
A weight distribution hitch is only to return weight to the front axle that is lost when hitching a trailer, typically 1/4 of the tongue weight can be removed from the front and it would now be carried by the rear in addition the the hitch weight.
Your tow vehicle should still squat in the rear with weight hitch properly adjusted, usually 1-3 inches. Air bags help restore that stance without redistributing weight and reduce bounce by stiffing the suspension.
If you don't believe me, scale your setup.
#29
Lots of info on this thread. I had airbags on my 2000 F350, and I have been trying different WDHs on my 2020 F350, and have been to CAT scales probably 20 times. I am an engineer and have calculated all the axle forces with and without WHDs, and verified them on the CAT scales. Here's my take:
1) Air bags will make your ride harsher.
2) Any tongue weight will remove weight from the truck front axle.
3) If too much weight is removed from the truck front axle, your truck will be less stable and more likely to lose control.
4) It is very unlikely that a WDH could remove so much weight from the rear axle that your truck could become unstable.
5) The only way to accurately adjust a WDH is using a CAT scale, or with a scale built into the WDH. (Like this one: https://www.weigh-safe.com/weight-distribution/ )
I ended buying one because I'm an analytic and need to measure darn near everything.
Consider installing a helper spring on your F250 that only engages under load. All options being equal, my F350 has the same rear springs as your F250, it just has an extra helper spring. Using the WDH, with 1400 lbs tongue weight on my F350, the truck and the camper ride completely flat.
1) Air bags will make your ride harsher.
2) Any tongue weight will remove weight from the truck front axle.
3) If too much weight is removed from the truck front axle, your truck will be less stable and more likely to lose control.
4) It is very unlikely that a WDH could remove so much weight from the rear axle that your truck could become unstable.
5) The only way to accurately adjust a WDH is using a CAT scale, or with a scale built into the WDH. (Like this one: https://www.weigh-safe.com/weight-distribution/ )
I ended buying one because I'm an analytic and need to measure darn near everything.
Consider installing a helper spring on your F250 that only engages under load. All options being equal, my F350 has the same rear springs as your F250, it just has an extra helper spring. Using the WDH, with 1400 lbs tongue weight on my F350, the truck and the camper ride completely flat.
#30