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Grinding noise from NP205

 
  #16  
Old 01-21-2019, 12:57 PM
1TonBasecamp
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Sorry, didn't see your post before I hit send Cougar. Takes me a long time to type!

Even with the clearance (which looks great by the way) your angles have to match or you will have a vibration. And from here they don't look like they match at all.
It's always hard to tell in pics of course, but the upper joint looks like it's at a steeper angle than the lower. Is that correct? Can you tell by how much? A simple way to check (but more work) is to remove the shaft again and measure across the flats of the yokes. Maybe turn them so that they both face the same way (long way vertical maybe?) and then measure with your angle finder.

If you can find some other consistent spot to measure from without taking the shaft off, by all means go for it.
It can be done. Just that some trucks are harder to find that spot than others. Maybe you don't have to be precise anyway, if it's far enough off.

Paul
 
  #17  
Old 01-21-2019, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Cougar2 View Post
Ok, here are some pictures. The angle of the drive shaft is 18 degrees and that is if the truck is on level ground or no, it's a give or take.
Thanks for the good pics.
The angle is steep, but not out of line for a lifted truck. But it's the relative angle of the two ends that really counts. Other than clearances, which are definitely effected by overall angle, most vibrations come from either old tired and worn out joints (not likely in your case) OR mis-matched angles of the two joints.
This is in fact why Ford used the more expensive Double-Cardan (CV) setup at the top. This third joint effectively negates the problems of angle mismatching. It does not have as much potential travel I don't think, but long wheel travel was not on their minds. Just vibrations with short, higher angled shafts.

Originally Posted by Cougar2 View Post
it is the same noise and he managed to have the noise go away after unlocking the hubs and re-locking them as well as going thought the gears. What do you make of that?
Same things as you're doing with accel/decel. Loading and unloading the gears and joints.
Even with a toasted transfer case, removing the shaft could possibly get rid of any noises because the whole load dynamic has changed without the link to the tires.
Doesn't mean as much as we'd like unfortunately. There are still "most likely" candidates, but there are still all the candidates until the source has been found.

Originally Posted by Cougar2 View Post
could the use of the wrong grease stop the full engagement of the hubs?
Not normally the wrong grease. But too much, too little, or too little maintenance can definitely do it.
But usually the hub mechanisms make their noise out at the hubs themselves. If the gears are not meshing properly and the axle shaft is not catching fully, you'll hear the ticking/clicking noises at the outer ends.
If you have limited-slip or locking differentials though, if one hub locks and the other does not, you can get some funky noises. Easy to check hubs though.
Unlock the hubs and make sure you can turn the u-joints behind the knuckles easily. Then lock the hubs separately and see if they both lock their axle shaft solid.
You can check with the driveshaft too, but you have to be able to see both axle u-joints to be sure. If you lock one hub on an open differential the one you locked will not spin, but you can still turn the driveshaft while the other side remains unlocked.

Do you have original locking hubs, or aftermarket?

Originally Posted by Cougar2 View Post
You would thing it would be evident they were not locked in, but I did have 4wd forward, with not disengagement problems. Just the disengagement on deceleration.
It's pretty evident. But it never hurts to get down there and verify each one's function.
Even in the cold weather!

Good luck.

Paul
 
  #18  
Old 01-21-2019, 01:14 PM
Shawner1974
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The truck I have is a 78 F150. Lifted about 4" with single joints on driveshafts front and rear. I'm starting to suspect slip spline on rear shaft...I should get a longer shaft made up.
 
  #19  
Old 01-21-2019, 02:12 PM
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So your splines have a ton of slop in them? Is it both twisting and rocking loose?
Not sure if that's the right place to use "axial" and "radial" or just the more scientific "loosey goosey" instead!

Paul
 
  #20  
Old 01-21-2019, 02:16 PM
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I don't really feel a lot of looseness, but the spline isn't holding on by much! Maybe 1-1/2"? Should have done it when I lifted it.
 
  #21  
Old 01-21-2019, 02:19 PM
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Oh yeah, that definitely doesn't sound like a good thing!

Paul
 
  #22  
Old 01-21-2019, 03:46 PM
Cougar2
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Originally Posted by 1TonBasecamp View Post
Thanks for the good pics.
The angle is steep, but not out of line for a lifted truck. But it's the relative angle of the two ends that really counts. Other than clearances, which are definitely effected by overall angle, most vibrations come from either old tired and worn out joints (not likely in your case) OR mis-matched angles of the two joints.
This is in fact why Ford used the more expensive Double-Cardan (CV) setup at the top. This third joint effectively negates the problems of angle mismatching. It does not have as much potential travel I don't think, but long wheel travel was not on their minds. Just vibrations with short, higher angled shafts.



Same things as you're doing with accel/decel. Loading and unloading the gears and joints.
Even with a toasted transfer case, removing the shaft could possibly get rid of any noises because the whole load dynamic has changed without the link to the tires.
Doesn't mean as much as we'd like unfortunately. There are still "most likely" candidates, but there are still all the candidates until the source has been found.



Not normally the wrong grease. But too much, too little, or too little maintenance can definitely do it.
But usually the hub mechanisms make their noise out at the hubs themselves. If the gears are not meshing properly and the axle shaft is not catching fully, you'll hear the ticking/clicking noises at the outer ends.
If you have limited-slip or locking differentials though, if one hub locks and the other does not, you can get some funky noises. Easy to check hubs though.
Unlock the hubs and make sure you can turn the u-joints behind the knuckles easily. Then lock the hubs separately and see if they both lock their axle shaft solid.
You can check with the driveshaft too, but you have to be able to see both axle u-joints to be sure. If you lock one hub on an open differential the one you locked will not spin, but you can still turn the driveshaft while the other side remains unlocked.

Do you have original locking hubs, or aftermarket?



It's pretty evident. But it never hurts to get down there and verify each one's function.
Even in the cold weather!

Good luck.

Paul
Paul, So the angle at the transfer case is 90 degrees and at the axel, it's 83 degrees. I also checked the locking hubs and each are disengaging and engaging correctly. Took it through the gears "transfer case" back and forth and the noise is still there. It was hard to reproduce until a number of passes in a show filled parking lot. It would start to do it between 35 and 40mph. So I could not make it go away like "paulstruck" could. I don't have time today to pull the drive shaft off to see if it is still doing it.
 
  #23  
Old 01-21-2019, 04:34 PM
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Well at least you have a front Dana 60 axle and a Spicer joint on the top part. I agree that the top xfer case output angle looks awful steep. Nice clearance job on the yoke, but FYI that area can fail under hard use. As long as you did not hard pack the lock in/out full you should be ok. And seems like you already checked that. I'd pull the front d/s (when you have a chance) and see what that produces.

I see some interesting looking steel outboard to lower and above on the inside of the crossmember spacer blocks? What do you have going on there?
 
  #24  
Old 01-21-2019, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by 77&79F250 View Post
Well at least you have a front Dana 60 axle and a Spicer joint on the top part. I agree that the top xfer case output angle looks awful steep. Nice clearance job on the yoke, but FYI that area can fail under hard use. As long as you did not hard pack the lock in/out full you should be ok. And seems like you already checked that. I'd pull the front d/s (when you have a chance) and see what that produces.

I see some interesting looking steel outboard to lower and above on the inside of the crossmember spacer blocks? What do you have going on there?
Not sure what you mean by "hard pack the lock in and out full"?
As for the steel 3/4 plat, it's to lower the crossmember to give clearance for the driveshaft. The previous owner did this. He also added plate steel on the inside of the frame rails as well to stiffen up the frame.
 
  #25  
Old 01-21-2019, 05:31 PM
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I believe that people think the statement "repacking the front hubs"...literally means packing the lock in/out/hub with grease. And not just repacking the wheel bearings. I had a parts truck one time that the guy must of used a air powered grease gun to literally pack the front hub FULL of grease and that counted for repacking the front wheel bearings. lol

The crossmember drop plate trick...oh ok.
 
  #26  
Old 01-21-2019, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 77&79F250 View Post
I believe that people think the statement "repacking the front hubs"...literally means packing the lock in/out/hub with grease. And not just repacking the wheel bearings. I had a parts truck one time that the guy must of used a air powered grease gun to literally pack the front hub FULL of grease and that counted for repacking the front wheel bearings. lol

The crossmember drop plate trick...oh ok.
Ok, so to answer the question, I only coated the hub parts in grease, I did not pack them. I now have an appointment for Thursday night to get the truck in the shop and we are opening up the front dif to see what we can see. We will check the bearings, pinion and lash. The outer bearings are good.
 
  #27  
Old 01-26-2019, 06:36 PM
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I took the drive shaft off and when for a drive, leaving the hubs engaged and the transferase in 4wd. There was no more noise! I haven't got to the shop to pull the cover off the axel, since the space hasn't opened up yet. I will give an update after that. So, What are your thoughts, Pinion bearing?
 
  #28  
Old 01-26-2019, 06:47 PM
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Well at least it sounds like it is NOT a xfer case issue. Keep us posted, hopefully it is a quick, cheap and easy fix.
 
  #29  
Old 01-26-2019, 07:54 PM
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For my part, I still think it could be either the rear end or the driveshaft.
Hoping for the shaft though, since it's usually a less expensive fix!

Paul
 
  #30  
Old 01-26-2019, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Cougar2 View Post
Paul, So the angle at the transfer case is 90 degrees and at the axel, it's 83 degrees.
Sorry, forgot to respond to this before.
I think that's out of spec. Optimally they should both be the same (this is from the ground I assume?) or within just a couple of degrees. So 90 and 90, or 87 and 93, etc.
Being 7 degrees might be enough to wear out a u-joint prematurely.

Paul
 

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