First drive on slippery roads with locker.
#16
01-21-2019, 06:06 PM
But you are proving that you don't. Lockers do not lock under power. They lock when neither tire is trying to overrun the ring gear. When you get into the power too much and spin the inside tire it (and the ring gear) catches up with the outside tire and the locker locks. But it's not locking because you are on the power. It's locking because you are spinning the inside tire. Yes the difference there is subtle, but if you don't get that difference then you might understand how to safely drive your truck, but you don't really understand how your locker works.
And yes, you will chirp a tire pretty easily starting in a turn. But that's because it's UNlocked. When it's unlocked you are only driving the inside tire and it's really easy to break it free, so you will chirp it. But not because it was locked.
I agree with this. The torque steer can be really annoying in a short wheelbase vehicle with a manual trans (my CJ5 was pretty annoying, my early Bronco is a lot better but still pretty noticeable). Longer wheelbase and / or an automatic trans both tend to minimize the effect and I could hardly tell it was there in my F-150 SCSB.
Although the scrubbing of the front tires you are talking about is really just a symptom of the torque steer you already mentioned, because as noted above, the locker will unlock if the traction is good enough to keep the insider rear tire from spinning. But yes, that torque steer can make you push out the front end if it's slippery enough. Still, I can't say that I really notice this because if it's that slippery I'm probably in 4WD and then the front tires are pulling themselves in the right direction. Sure, the locker in the rear will cause a little larger turning radius, but as you said, it's usually not a problem.
And yes, you will chirp a tire pretty easily starting in a turn. But that's because it's UNlocked. When it's unlocked you are only driving the inside tire and it's really easy to break it free, so you will chirp it. But not because it was locked.
I agree with this. The torque steer can be really annoying in a short wheelbase vehicle with a manual trans (my CJ5 was pretty annoying, my early Bronco is a lot better but still pretty noticeable). Longer wheelbase and / or an automatic trans both tend to minimize the effect and I could hardly tell it was there in my F-150 SCSB.
Although the scrubbing of the front tires you are talking about is really just a symptom of the torque steer you already mentioned, because as noted above, the locker will unlock if the traction is good enough to keep the insider rear tire from spinning. But yes, that torque steer can make you push out the front end if it's slippery enough. Still, I can't say that I really notice this because if it's that slippery I'm probably in 4WD and then the front tires are pulling themselves in the right direction. Sure, the locker in the rear will cause a little larger turning radius, but as you said, it's usually not a problem.
Say whatever you want, but I know how a detroit locker works.
#17
01-21-2019, 09:17 PM
This is from Randy's ring and pinion, they know what happens with a locker if anyone is interested:
Automatic locking differentials are engineered to keep both wheels in a constant drive mode, yet have the ability to unlock to permit a difference in wheel speed while negotiating turns.
Recommended for serious off-roaders or serious hot-rodders, they can be annoying for everyday driving. The main shortcoming of automatic lockers is the noise inherent in their design. When getting on or off the throttle, they tend to bang or clunk, or sometimes make noise while disengaging when negotiating a turn. These characteristics are due to the design and a few locker manufacturers have come up with designs that make less noise, but no one has developed a perfectly quiet automatic locker yet. One more effect of lockers that hampers every day use is that they only drive the inside wheel on a turn, which can affect vehicle handling.
When driving the inside wheel, the vehicle tends to yaw from side to side slightly when negotiating a turn under power. When turning sharply while taking off from a stop, the inside wheel will tend to spin easily. This is especially prominent when taking off on a right turn, for two reasons: the torque on the rearend housing due to the driveline torque un-weights the right wheel, and right hand turns are tighter (because we drive on the right side of the road).
Automatic locking differentials are engineered to keep both wheels in a constant drive mode, yet have the ability to unlock to permit a difference in wheel speed while negotiating turns.
Recommended for serious off-roaders or serious hot-rodders, they can be annoying for everyday driving. The main shortcoming of automatic lockers is the noise inherent in their design. When getting on or off the throttle, they tend to bang or clunk, or sometimes make noise while disengaging when negotiating a turn. These characteristics are due to the design and a few locker manufacturers have come up with designs that make less noise, but no one has developed a perfectly quiet automatic locker yet. One more effect of lockers that hampers every day use is that they only drive the inside wheel on a turn, which can affect vehicle handling.
When driving the inside wheel, the vehicle tends to yaw from side to side slightly when negotiating a turn under power. When turning sharply while taking off from a stop, the inside wheel will tend to spin easily. This is especially prominent when taking off on a right turn, for two reasons: the torque on the rearend housing due to the driveline torque un-weights the right wheel, and right hand turns are tighter (because we drive on the right side of the road).
#18
01-22-2019, 07:31 AM
Temporarily Deactivated
100% of nothing is nothing
Nothing is 100% except for dead.
You never see the one that gets you. Can't protect yourself from something you don't know is there. Dry road, everything fine, ice, ditch, bang, blood.
I get called arrogant on this forum all of the time but this thread is arrogant beyond anything I can come up with.
All you gotta do is get a little across the line and OOPS, there goes another SUV soccer mom and her mini-van load of kids, 100% dead.
It's just a little in your rear-end, mostly between your ears, but some of it is NEVER in your control.
You never see the one that gets you. Can't protect yourself from something you don't know is there. Dry road, everything fine, ice, ditch, bang, blood.
I get called arrogant on this forum all of the time but this thread is arrogant beyond anything I can come up with.
All you gotta do is get a little across the line and OOPS, there goes another SUV soccer mom and her mini-van load of kids, 100% dead.
It's just a little in your rear-end, mostly between your ears, but some of it is NEVER in your control.
#19
01-22-2019, 07:52 AM
Logistics Pro
Let me take one last try at this, then I'll be content to agree to disagree.
Say you are starting around a corner on packed snow with an empty truck. There's some traction, but not a lot. You get on the power a little, spin the inside tire and the locker engages.
Now say you are starting around the same corner, but now the pavement is dry and clean, and you have a pallet of concrete mix in the bed. You have really good traction. You get on the power pretty hard to get that load started, but with the good traction you don't spin the inside tire, and the locker stays disengaged, with the outside tire coasting ahead faster than the inside tire.
And now say you complete the turn with the concrete on dry pavement, straighten out, and get off the power because you don't need to keep accelerating. Now the locker reengages and will drive both back tires (until one wants to overrun again).
In the first two situations you got on the power, but in only one case the locker reengaged. And the time it didn't reengage was the time you got on the power more. And in the third situation you got off the power and the locker engaged. That's because getting on the power isn't what makes the locker reengage. It's the tires going the same speed. One way for them to go the same speed is to spin the inside tire, and yes it spins when you get on the power. But it's not the power that engages the locker, it's the tires going the same speed.
Randy's is saying the same thing I am.
Say you are starting around a corner on packed snow with an empty truck. There's some traction, but not a lot. You get on the power a little, spin the inside tire and the locker engages.
Now say you are starting around the same corner, but now the pavement is dry and clean, and you have a pallet of concrete mix in the bed. You have really good traction. You get on the power pretty hard to get that load started, but with the good traction you don't spin the inside tire, and the locker stays disengaged, with the outside tire coasting ahead faster than the inside tire.
And now say you complete the turn with the concrete on dry pavement, straighten out, and get off the power because you don't need to keep accelerating. Now the locker reengages and will drive both back tires (until one wants to overrun again).
In the first two situations you got on the power, but in only one case the locker reengaged. And the time it didn't reengage was the time you got on the power more. And in the third situation you got off the power and the locker engaged. That's because getting on the power isn't what makes the locker reengage. It's the tires going the same speed. One way for them to go the same speed is to spin the inside tire, and yes it spins when you get on the power. But it's not the power that engages the locker, it's the tires going the same speed.
This is from Randy's ring and pinion, they know what happens with a locker if anyone is interested:
Automatic locking differentials are engineered to keep both wheels in a constant drive mode, yet have the ability to unlock to permit a difference in wheel speed while negotiating turns.
Recommended for serious off-roaders or serious hot-rodders, they can be annoying for everyday driving. The main shortcoming of automatic lockers is the noise inherent in their design. When getting on or off the throttle, they tend to bang or clunk, or sometimes make noise while disengaging when negotiating a turn. These characteristics are due to the design and a few locker manufacturers have come up with designs that make less noise, but no one has developed a perfectly quiet automatic locker yet. One more effect of lockers that hampers every day use is that they only drive the inside wheel on a turn, which can affect vehicle handling.
When driving the inside wheel, the vehicle tends to yaw from side to side slightly when negotiating a turn under power. When turning sharply while taking off from a stop, the inside wheel will tend to spin easily. This is especially prominent when taking off on a right turn, for two reasons: the torque on the rearend housing due to the driveline torque un-weights the right wheel, and right hand turns are tighter (because we drive on the right side of the road).
Automatic locking differentials are engineered to keep both wheels in a constant drive mode, yet have the ability to unlock to permit a difference in wheel speed while negotiating turns.
Recommended for serious off-roaders or serious hot-rodders, they can be annoying for everyday driving. The main shortcoming of automatic lockers is the noise inherent in their design. When getting on or off the throttle, they tend to bang or clunk, or sometimes make noise while disengaging when negotiating a turn. These characteristics are due to the design and a few locker manufacturers have come up with designs that make less noise, but no one has developed a perfectly quiet automatic locker yet. One more effect of lockers that hampers every day use is that they only drive the inside wheel on a turn, which can affect vehicle handling.
When driving the inside wheel, the vehicle tends to yaw from side to side slightly when negotiating a turn under power. When turning sharply while taking off from a stop, the inside wheel will tend to spin easily. This is especially prominent when taking off on a right turn, for two reasons: the torque on the rearend housing due to the driveline torque un-weights the right wheel, and right hand turns are tighter (because we drive on the right side of the road).
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