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Not your average Crank No Start $50 Reward if you solve the issue.

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6.0L Power Stroke Diesel 2003 - 2007 F250, F350 pickup and F350+ Cab Chassis, 2003 - 2005 Excursion and 2003 - 2009 van

Not your average Crank No Start $50 Reward if you solve the issue.

 
  #1  
Old 01-16-2019, 09:03 AM
chad419
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Not your average Crank No Start $50 Reward if you solve the issue.

I will gladly send $50.00 Amazon Gift Card to any single person who can help me fix this! I am desperate, I have been working on my F-250 for a month with no more idea's. I am not a newbie to mechanics, I have built several cars both gas and diesel, I have a well equipped shop however this is my first Power Stroke. After reading this forum for days and days, watching all of DieselTecRon's videos I surrender.

The truck is a 2004 F-250 with 260,000 miles. I have owned it for a little over a year. The problem started when I was warming it up one day and it just shut off like the key was switched off. I tried to start it again and it would not run.

The Issue:
When Turning Ignition on, I will see the Glow Plug Light, Water In Fuel will flash, Injector Clatter and Vacuum Pump, Here is the strange thing, The fuel pump will NOT turn on until after the injector clatter is finished. After waiting for fuel to pump and stop I will turn to crank, starter spins fast, until ICP reaches 500 psi, then I hear relays click the ecm appears to restart during mid crank, causing the starter to cutout,hesitate or stutter almost like it was hydro-locked. It will do this over and over. However if I jumped the starter with the remote start wire, ignition off, it will crank great at 160ish rpm. With ICP unplugged the Fuel Pump will turn on with ignition on (no delay) and the truck will start.

What we have done to date..Long Back Story<p>

I had some codes (however I was stupid and cleared them) I had an older problem in June with a P2290: Injector Control Pressure Too Low error code, that was not addressed.
I tried just about everything, I had it towed to another mechanic who was a supposed power stroke guy, he wanted to replace all the injectors, starter, glow plugs, ficm, and ecm for a tune of $3,800. I told him thanks but hell no... I had it towed back to my shop and have been working on it ever sense. In order this is what I tried.
  1. Low Pressure Oil - Removing the filter and cranking and looking at the dash gauge showed I had low pressure oil.
  2. Batteries - The first thing I did was load test the 6 month old batteries, check out at 1100 CA each voltage is 12.70v.
  3. 6.4 Starter - The other mechanic swore I need a new starter even thought I had replaced the current one also 8 months ago. I reluctantly purchased an 6.4 starter and converted it. It now cranks even faster when remote cranks, however when attempting to start via key, it now spins fast until ICP reaches near 500 then will make a grinding noise.
  4. Wire Harness - I suspected (and still do) wiring issues, I had some cloth wire harness tape from a efi conversion on a vw sand car so I unwrapped, inspected and re-wrapped 60% of the harness. I did not see any visible holes or chafing deeper than the outside tape wearing. The cam sensor had some damage to the outer emf foil shielding near the upper fuel filter. I applied new foil emf shielding and tied in the grounding wire. I had replaced the FICM wiring harness earlier in 2018, However I checked it again for good measure.
  5. Unplugging topside Sensors, I one by one unplugged the EGR, EGT, EBP, Fan, AIT2, MAF/AIT1, and ICP as Soon as I unplugged the ICP it started.
  6. ICP - After Reading more, It was running. however giving me fake readings (icp-volts=0), but I was happy. I ordered a new ICP however it did the same thing
  7. ECM - Again, the mechanic said it defiantly needed a new PCM even though I could talk to it with my scan tool. I also reluctantly bought a used PCM from the same year truck that I heard run, No Change.
Mistake
I needed to haul some materials to a building project, I stupidly drove it on a 4 hour trip with ICP unplugged, it ran pretty good however power was less. On the way back getting off the freeway it just died about 80 miles from home. I called the tow truck and waited for him to arrive, 50 minutes later I was checking my torque gauges and low and behold it started again! I thought ok, crank no start hot? I had it towed anyway, it was late. I got it home, and it would never start again. With the new ICP plugged in or not. However no stuttering starter
  1. Pressure test- Because of the Crank no start Hot and the previous P2285 I suspected a high pressure oil leak. I bought the air fittings and found quite a few small leaks, this took a while to chase down. The oil stand off and dummy plugs had already been updated however I purchased the OEM's and replaced them anyways. I installed new nipple cups and nipple cup seals, along with pulling all the injectors (they were all OEM rebuilt already) and replacing two of the upper injector seals. Tested again and no air leaks at all. Went to crank again and 12psi.
  2. IPR - I had pulled the IPR to inspect the screen and pressure test it. The screen looked good, however the coil showed no ohm's- Ahah I thought so I bought a new IPR Valve and still no PSI
  3. Manual Gauge - not trusting the Torque readings I hooked up my hydraulic 5k PSI gauge confirming the new ICP sensor reading 5-20 psi or .2 volts on icp
  4. HPOP - The only thing left was the HPOP, I tore it all apart again, and was overjoyed to find a large crack in the rear of the oil pump, along with a loose bolt on the pump gear (all still in tact) The C clip and rear pump plate all fell out when removing the pump no missing parts fell into the block as far as I can tell. Also no metal or sparkly glitter was detected in the IPR screen or in oil. I purchased a Motor-craft Pump ($740)
  5. Changed Oil - Because of the clearly broken pump, I went ahead and changed the oil and filters. I went to crank and now I have high pressure oil again! But now back to shuddering while cranking when it hits 500 psi.
  6. Important! ICP Checking. Feeling totally at my whits end I unplugged the ICP again and it started right up! WTF? I hooked up my manual hydraulic gauge again (to icp port) and it starts and idles at 1200 psi. I checked the pigtail to the ICP and it has a vref of 5v, I did the pinpoint test to check for a short to +/ground and it passes. So I cut the pigtail off and try again with a new pigtail, here is the really strange thing with the ICP out of the vehicle plugged in the harness, the truck acts normal - the fuel pump turns on with the injector test. The second I touch the sensor to the block the fuel pump kicks on. I unhooked the sensor GR/RD Return and DB/GR Return leaving only vref BR/WH attached and it stops the fuel pump instantly. With icp unplugged and running, as soon as I attach 5v it dies. I can measure the signal and it is putting out .2 - .4 volts as you would expect, even out of the vehicle the voltage is there (dropping like a capacitor does). I suspected that the second sensor was bad shorting vref to ground, however vref stays at 5 volts while plugged in.

Sorry for such a long post, I am just trying to be thorough and not waist time. My wife and Son's are growing silently disappointing in my abilities as am I. I rarely ask for help, but dang it. I don't know where to go from here.
 

Last edited by chad419; 01-16-2019 at 11:54 AM. Reason: Formatting/Detail
  #2  
Old 01-16-2019, 03:29 PM
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Is your ICP a Ford one or aftermarket?

Quote - "it now spins fast until ICP reaches near 500 then will make a grinding noise.".

Can you pinpoint where the grinding noise is coming from?

Just to confirm - After all the work in the HPO system, it will now start and run normally with the ICP unplugged?
 
  #3  
Old 01-16-2019, 03:32 PM
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The icp I purchased was aftermarket, I just got off the phone with the dealer $168 for motor-craft.
 
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Old 01-16-2019, 03:43 PM
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Aftermarket ICPs have caused numerous issues. Not to say they all will, but it is a disappointingly high percentage.

Find someone w/ a working truck and borrow their ICP sensor. I could send you one for a $50 deposit if that helps any (I want it back), but it would be better to borrow one from someone you know there.
 
  #5  
Old 01-16-2019, 03:45 PM
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Another option is to go to the sub-forum for your state and see if anyone lives close by that could help.
 
  #6  
Old 01-16-2019, 06:41 PM
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i have an ICP sensor

Send me a PM if youre interested. It’s used but a good ICP. You can have it.

So I've tried to upload an image about 100 times. Won't work. ANyway, it's a good ICP. If you want it PM me with address. You can have it. It's collecting dust.

Dan

 

Last edited by Carolina Rig; 01-16-2019 at 06:51 PM. Reason: image won't upload
  #7  
Old 01-16-2019, 07:01 PM
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Did you try a new ICP pigtail?
 
  #8  
Old 01-16-2019, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jmaskew View Post
Did you try a new ICP pigtail?
See his last bullet point #6 I was thinking the whole time ICP shorting out but he then said at the very end that he did change the pigtail.
BUT, that doesn't mean it's not shorting out somewhere in the harness.
First though you gotta get rid of the aftermarket ICP sensor. I've never heard any good about them.
It's Motorcraft or nothing.
 
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Old 01-16-2019, 08:58 PM
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Its not the ICP

Well its not the ICP, I got a known working ICP and and same deal. I got creative and installed a dc/dc 5v converter and wired it directly from the battery to the old ICP pigtail. I tied in an inline voltmeter to signal pin and instantly had .2 volts! I got brave and clipped the test pigtail to the icp installed on engine. Leaving the pcm pigtail unplugged. Started it and nice 1.3 volts. Next I took a lead from my test piggy and plugged it in to the C pin on to pcm pigtail. Worked perfectly! What kills me is vref looks fine at 4.9 volts but as soon as I plug it in the pcm act's crazy. So now what?
 
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Old 01-16-2019, 09:11 PM
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When you installed the new pigtail, you didn't get the wires mis-matched did you?
 
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Old 01-16-2019, 09:17 PM
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I followed the manual B= +5 C= Sensor Out A = Return/ground
 
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Old 01-16-2019, 09:32 PM
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the 5V reference (bn-wh) goes in your position A (looking from the back)
the ground (or they call it the monitor) (gy-rd) goes in your position B
the signal return (db-lg) goes in your position C like you have it.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/g/picture/806129

Turn the harness so that the connector snap clip is at the 12:00 position, you will be looking at the back of the connector (at the wires). The gray w/ red wire (gy-rd) should go to the top left (it looks like this one is still connected in the pic I linked to in my FTE album). This is the ground. Go clockwise from there to the top right - the next wire is the brown w/ white (bn-wh), this is the 5V Ref wire (vref). Then dark blue w/ light green (db-lg) is at the 6:00 position - this goes to the PCM.

You have the 5V reference and ground wires reversed. The PCM doesn't try to ground the sensor until the key is turned on, that is when the PCM goes wonky..
 
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Old 01-17-2019, 08:29 AM
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So is it possible that when you put it back together that you pinched a wire in the valve cover. I ask because I've seen it done before. Not this exact thing to be clear, but a pinched wire in the valve cover causing problems
 
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Old 01-17-2019, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Nummy76 View Post
So is it possible that when you put it back together that you pinched a wire in the valve cover. I ask because I've seen it done before. Not this exact thing to be clear, but a pinched wire in the valve cover causing problems
I think he needs to check the wire locations first ...................
 
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Old 01-17-2019, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by bismic View Post
the 5V reference (bn-wh) goes in position A.
the ground (gy-rd) goes in position B
the signal return (db-lg) goes in position C like you have it

https://www.ford-trucks.com/g/picture/806129

Turn the harness so that the connector snap clip is at the 12:00 position, you will be looking at the back of the connector (at the wires). The gray w/ red wire (gy-rd) should go to the top left (it looks like this one is still connected in the pic I linked to in my FTE album). This is the ground. Go clockwise from there to the top right - the next wire is the brown w/ white (bn-wh), this is the 5V Ref wire (vref). Then dark blue w/ light green (db-lg) is at the 6:00 position - this goes to the PCM.

You have the 5V reference and ground wires reversed. The PCM doesn't try to ground the sensor until the key is turned on, that is when the PCM goes wonky..

I don't know, but I'm thinking that's the amazon card right there...
 

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