Fighting the Urge to do More to the 400

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Old 01-01-2019, 10:48 AM
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Fighting the Urge to do More to the 400

I’ve been a Motörhead during virtually all of my 69 years. I am in the process of a cosmetic restoration of my ‘78 F150 short bed 4x4 that I bought new. In the early nineties before I had the resources of this forum I built a mild 400 for it. I had no reasonable solution at the time for building a decent compression ratio into it. In addition I cammed it too mildly.

At the time, I bored it .040, stock dish pistons and stock heads milled .060 and the thinnest gasket I could find. I ported the heads and did a three angle valve job. I used a 204@.050 intake and 214@.050 exhaust cam, an Edelbrock performer and 600 Holley that I dialed in very well. The chassis is tough to get headers into, so I have stock manifolds and turbo mufflered 2 1/4” dual exhaust. It also has an MSD.

Fast forward 25 years and I am nearing completion of the restoration, getting down to trim and interior and replacing all fluids. It runs well, but with modern parts availability there is much room for engine improvement. I have carefully calculated the compression to be 8.7:1. With the long stroke it could take a good bit more cam without giving up any bottom end. Four tube into one headers would be a great improvement as would an after market hydraulic roller.

Currently the plans for the truck is Sunny weather errand running, parades and local car shows on the square or at the park. When not involved in such activities it would be stored cozily under a cover in the back corner of my hangar.

I am fighting the urge to tear it apart and pump $3,000 to $4,000 into it, only to drive it around occasionally and enjoy knowing that I have a great engine under the hood. I have built enough engines over the years to know that the fun and challenge of the build itself is a massive part of the satisfaction. I can, in no way, justify this build, but it keeps calling out to me.

So,..... will I end up heeding it’s calling out to me, or just enjoy putt-putting around?

The companion thread regarding the truck restoration is:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...finally-2.html
 
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Old 01-01-2019, 11:25 AM
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I wouldn't use a bigger cam unless you can get the compression ratio up. I've found snow performance H2o/Meth injection and a speed demon carb with anular discharge venturis to be a big help in fighting preignition.
 
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Old 01-01-2019, 11:48 AM
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I will do all of it, or none of it. IF I do it at all, the biggest question will be how I go about raising compression. The second biggest question will be the cam, which will be determined by whether or not I decide to hack up the fender wells for a decent set of headers. As most people who read this sub forum know, the compression solution choices are: Aftermarket aluminum heads, Aussies, or TMI pistons. Within each of these choices is the CR calculations.

What I currently have is probably the optimum for a low dollar warm over.

Careful calculation shows that 60 cc heads on my current short block would give 9.97:1. If they were aluminum heads, that may be a workable CR.
 
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Old 01-01-2019, 01:08 PM
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I can get Trickflow heads completely assembled for $1000 each. They are 62 CC which would give about 9.7:1. Once I start down that road, I need headers and more cam. About 220@.050 for my street motor. Those heads with headers would make it work okay with a single pattern cam. I don’t think you would then need the extra duration like you would need for many of the poor flowing Ford exhaust ports.
 
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Old 01-02-2019, 02:40 AM
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Need squish before heads. Tim's piston are the only way to get zero deck without excessive milling of the block. Run Tim's pistons with the trick flow 72cc chambers. That will give you the proper squish and compression ratio. Just my two cents.
 
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Old 01-02-2019, 06:27 AM
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Thanks for the comment Head Forest!😊

I don’t understand though. What is the difference whether you take the volume from the deck clearance or the combustion chamber as long as you get the desired compression ratio?

Again, thanks for the feedback and I look forward to the explanation.😊
 
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Old 01-02-2019, 07:18 AM
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Okay Head Forest, I did some research and understand the concept. Don’t know if I am willing to do both pistons AND heads for this particular application, but your point is well taken.

Thanks again!
 
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Old 01-02-2019, 03:41 PM
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Head forest? I believe its head hunter, or am I wrong?
 
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Old 01-02-2019, 03:59 PM
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Also Tim's pistons are $425 but they come with a set of total seal conventional rings, the rings alone are a hundred dollars. Tim's pistons are a great deal and they provide the squish needed. You can always do the short block then later do the heads, but honestly, Tim's pistons with stock 400 heads work really well. Its just that by the time you get all the work done to the heads, including screw in studs and guide plates, its just a few dollars more to get trick flow heads. Trick Flows are an amazing deal when you consider what you get with the head and the choice of 62cc or 72cc chambers, but yeah money is always a factor.
 
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Old 01-03-2019, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by kopfenjager
Head forest? I believe its head hunter, or am I wrong?
Yep, you’re right. My knee jerk interpretation was from “Jaeger Meister,” which is the game warden and supervisor of the forest, so I thought it meant “Forest Master.” It makes since that the term would mean Hunter Master.

I spent two years in Germany as a young man and I deeply regret the fact that I didn’t come away fluent.
 
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Old 01-03-2019, 09:44 AM
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If I were to go the piston route, it has been so long since I built the engine, I don’t remember if it’s bored .030 or .040. Changing pistons without fitting as when the machine shop goes through the boring and honing process would be iffy.

My heads already have the studs and guide plates. I did a good job of porting them too, even if I do say so myself.

When I start thinking about it, I have the original 351M block and rods in the back of my old shop. If I had another 400 crank I could build a short block and then just change it out. Hmmm.... I haven’t had any machine work done in a long time. Machine shops with quality Equipment are not as plentiful as they used to be.

Head Hunter how bad did you have to hack up the fender wells for the headers?
 
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Old 01-06-2019, 05:57 PM
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Didn't hack much at all. A little bit of clearancing on the cab mount but other than that they slipped right in.


 
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Old 01-06-2019, 08:43 PM
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Thanks head hunter! That answers my question perfectly. Since I am going all out to make the truck appear as it did the day I took delivery 41 years ago, I will have tothinklong and hard.
 
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Old 01-07-2019, 04:10 PM
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Your cylinder heads flow enough to support 400 - 450 hp. You don't "need" the better heads. The TMI pistons work to give squish to your stock heads. You'd need to mill the "quench dome" off the pistons to use a closed chamber aftermarket head.
If you were going to use aluminum heads I'd suggest you needed flat tops with the right compression height to get the magic 0.040" squish. Maybe even need a reverse dome piston to get compression to 9.0:1 which should work really well without requiring race gas. I'm thinking midgrade gas.
For a camshaft your cam is a really old grind that has been around forever and is sold by maybe a dozen different companies. I'd suggest in its place the Lunati first or second level Voodoo cam or the Comp 265DEH. Something like that. You don't need 220 or more degrees at 50 lift. And you don't need a cam with a lot of overlap. So a modern quick lobe with a moderate LSA, say 112 degrees, is where you want to land. Remember that big cams are used to crutch poor flowing heads.
For the exhaust long tube headers will fatten the torque curve everywhere. It isn't about flow, it's about the tuning effect. And the headers don't have to be equal length, either. That doesn't apply really well to street engines that ne3ed a broader torque curve.
You have to feed the beast so a 750cfm Holley Street Demon or other Holley 750 or an Edelbrock 800 AFB or preferably AVS will get the job done. Your intake manifold choices narrow down to Edelbrock Performer or Weiand which is now made in China (boo). You could also use a 351C intake with spacers but that would be $$$ more expensive.

R.
 
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Old 01-07-2019, 04:42 PM
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There is no need to run a close chamber aftermarket head. As a example, Trick Flow heads come with a 72cc chamber. That's somewhere in the mid nines depending on gasket and zero deck. Point is, you keep the step dome and the squish characteristics of Tim's pistons, while getting the benefits of a modern combustion chamber, better flowing ports and better hardware.

So,
4.04" bore
4" stroke
72cc head (TFS alloy head)
.041x4.1 head gasket
13.3 cc dish Tim's pistons zero decked
equals 9.92 compression ratio.
needs more than ~59* intake valve closing to avoid detonation on regular fuel.

With that being said your heads,
4.04" bore
4" stroke
~66cc 1978 stock 2V iron head (Cleveland heads can be milled up to 0.060"; the combustion chamber volume of quench chamber heads is reduced 1cc for every 0.006" milled, and the combustion chamber volume of open chamber heads is reduced the same amount for every 0.005" milled.)
.041x4.1 head gasket
13.3cc dish Tim's pistons
equals 10.5 compression ratio.
needs more than ~72* + intake valve closing to avoid detonation on premium fuel. That's a fairly big cam.

Just my two cents...
 


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