4.6 codes that don't make sense to me - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

Notices

4.6 codes that don't make sense to me

  #1  
Old 12-31-2018, 07:26 PM
RenoHuskerDu's Avatar
RenoHuskerDu
RenoHuskerDu is offline
Elder User
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 846
RenoHuskerDu is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
4.6 codes that don't make sense to me

I'm posting about a gasser for the first time. This is our daughter's 2008 4.6.

We got the CEL and found P0302 and P0316 codes, with slight surging and slight lumpy idle. 0302 is cylinder misfire cyl#2. 0316 is misfires on startup within the first 3000rpm, which you usually get along with any cyl misfire code. We swapped COPs on #2 and #3, and the error stayed with #2, did not follow the COP. So we installed new spark plugs. The old ones were visibly worn.

So far, so good, it all makes sense. But the symptoms are now worse with the new plugs in there (heavier surging, uneven running, down on power, CEL on a lot of flashing) and the code is now P0304, cyl#4 misfire. Huh? The plugs are Motorcraft SP-493 AGSF32PM which is standard for a CVPI (this is the 4.6 v8 in our daughter's Crown Vic Police Interceptor).

Note that P000-FF is in there too, but it's probably because we cleared the codes recently.
Note the B1352 code. I wonder if the ignition switch is acting up? Cops don't usually hang a lot of keys on the ring, a cause of switch failure.

The symptoms when I drive it don't match with one cylinder misfire, using my old SOP-meter. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like more than one cylinder is acting up, because the surging knocks off a lot of power.

Next step is to swap the plug out of cyl#4 and see if the code follows that spark plug. Any ideas or tips are welcome!

Here's the latest FORScan screen from my android
.
 
  #2  
Old 12-31-2018, 08:30 PM
Sam I Am's Avatar
Sam I Am
Sam I Am is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Fort Smith, Arkansas
Posts: 1,597
Sam I Am has a good reputation on FTE.Sam I Am has a good reputation on FTE.
I would pull each COP and blow each spark plug well out again with compressed air. Water or dust in there can cause a misfire. Also inspect the COP boots very carefully. These should always be replaced with new spark plugs as the rubber degrades over time and can crack which can cause a misfire. It is low cost peace of mind.

Not necessarily specific to your issue, but a very common cause of misfire on #4 is drips coming down from the heater core hoses.

I believe the B1352 relates to the chime for having the key inserted. If it doesn't chime, someone may have clipped the dinger wire. If it does chime intermittently it may be the clock spring, or the connector for the steering column may be loose. This can happen with service vehicles when the tilt steering is moved a lot.
 
  #3  
Old 12-31-2018, 08:40 PM
Sam I Am's Avatar
Sam I Am
Sam I Am is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Fort Smith, Arkansas
Posts: 1,597
Sam I Am has a good reputation on FTE.Sam I Am has a good reputation on FTE.
Also on the boots, some people tend to glop WAY TOO MUCH dielectric grease in the boot and connector. All it ever needs is a slight lube on the inside of the boot at each end to assist in boot removal next time and to help seal until then. The connectors are weather pack with O-rings so you don't really need any in there.
If you used too much, clean them out with a good contact cleaner such as CRC and try again.
Dielectric grease is an insulator, so if you got it on the contacts it could be causing issues.
 
  #4  
Old 01-01-2019, 11:20 AM
RenoHuskerDu's Avatar
RenoHuskerDu
RenoHuskerDu is offline
Elder User
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 846
RenoHuskerDu is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
We found some oil down in the plug pockets and a bit of crud accumulated over the years. The old plugs had been in there forever. We used a small piece of PVC pipe, duct taped into the shopvac nozzle, trying to get the pockets clean. I need to fab up an air nozzle with a long copper tube on the end.

No coolant visible. I think that's earlier 4.6 that have the intake manifold coolant leak issue. We'll look at heater hoses.

We didn't use dielectric grease at all. I used a tiny smidge of conductive copper grease right on the spark plug conx, and a tinier bit on the top of the COP where the small contacts are.

I didn't know you can buy the boots separately. Good tip!
 
  #5  
Old 01-01-2019, 12:37 PM
RenoHuskerDu's Avatar
RenoHuskerDu
RenoHuskerDu is offline
Elder User
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 846
RenoHuskerDu is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Amazon has a full COP set for only $30 but that seemed dodgy. 6% of reviews say they fell apart on install or failed within a few months. No thanks, Bezos.
On the bright side, many Amazon comments mention "surging, no codes" issues on the 4.6 and 5.4 motors being fixed by a new set of COPs. This is good info.
And we'll blast out those spark plug pockets with a new nozzle I'll fab for our compressor air hose. Life will be good.

AutoZone wants $70 for a COP set so we're going for that, and they're open on New Years Day. O'Reilly wants $60 just for the boots! Our daughter is off to A&M on Saturday so I gotta resolve this soon.
 
  #6  
Old 01-01-2019, 01:00 PM
Sam I Am's Avatar
Sam I Am
Sam I Am is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Fort Smith, Arkansas
Posts: 1,597
Sam I Am has a good reputation on FTE.Sam I Am has a good reputation on FTE.
I was just about to post "you get what you pay for" when I saw your next reply.
I'm not sure your expectations are realistic concerning the cheap COPs.
In my opinion it would be better to replace the boots on the OE COPs vs replacing the COPS with cheapies.
Your basic good COP bad COP scenario.
For the immediate time crunch, you might buy the set for $70 and use the new boots on the OE COPs and save the new cheapie COPs for emergency spares.

Where is it you used conductive grease? That is the first I have heard of someone using that on ignition. I would be concerned it might migrate somewhere you don't want it.
 
  #7  
Old 01-01-2019, 01:08 PM
Sam I Am's Avatar
Sam I Am
Sam I Am is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Fort Smith, Arkansas
Posts: 1,597
Sam I Am has a good reputation on FTE.Sam I Am has a good reputation on FTE.
There is another thread from someone having a bad time with Autozone coils, but it may or may not be due to the coils themselves as the issue is as yet unresolved.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...going-bad.html
 
  #8  
Old 01-01-2019, 10:04 PM
RenoHuskerDu's Avatar
RenoHuskerDu
RenoHuskerDu is offline
Elder User
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 846
RenoHuskerDu is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Well I picked up those Autozone coils and installed them tonight. They come with a little dielectric grease already in place at the bottom of the boot. Nice touch. We cleared the codes and tomorrow at the crack of noon we'll go for a run and see what we get.

As for the copper grease, I'm a ham and use it on many delicate connections or those subject to weather. A tiny screwdriver or a Q-tip with its cotton cut off is useful to apply it judiciously. Yep, it's conductive, so in the wrong spot it will cause a short.

There is hope.
Take a look at the boot below. That's a pretty wide crack, and the boot is dirty too. I'm guessing that these were the OE coils. Looks like a Ford part number, and they look 10 years old.


 
  #9  
Old 01-01-2019, 11:44 PM
Sam I Am's Avatar
Sam I Am
Sam I Am is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Fort Smith, Arkansas
Posts: 1,597
Sam I Am has a good reputation on FTE.Sam I Am has a good reputation on FTE.
So was the cracked boot on the cylinder with the misfire?

If I were you I would save those original coils and order some boots from ebay or Rock Auto.
 
  #10  
Old 01-02-2019, 03:18 PM
RenoHuskerDu's Avatar
RenoHuskerDu
RenoHuskerDu is offline
Elder User
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 846
RenoHuskerDu is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Originally Posted by Sam I Am View Post
So was the cracked boot on the cylinder with the misfire?

If I were you I would save those original coils and order some boots from ebay or Rock Auto.
No, it was on the passenger bank. P0304 is the last on the driver bank. But I hear a lot of chatter about surging with no codes or wrong codes. My master tech friend hates the way Ford logs misfires poorly.

I am saving those COPs, for sure.
 
  #11  
Old 01-02-2019, 07:33 PM
Im50fast's Avatar
Im50fast
Im50fast is online now
Nice guy!
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 2,944
Im50fast has a great reputation on FTE.Im50fast has a great reputation on FTE.Im50fast has a great reputation on FTE.Im50fast has a great reputation on FTE.Im50fast has a great reputation on FTE.
Originally Posted by RenoHuskerDu View Post
No, it was on the passenger bank. P0304 is the last on the driver bank. But I hear a lot of chatter about surging with no codes or wrong codes. My master tech friend hates the way Ford logs misfires poorly.

I am saving those COPs, for sure.
P0304 is cylinder 4, which is the rearmost on passenger side (for a v8 modular), not “last on the driver bank”.

Unless I misunderstood you.
 
  #12  
Old 01-02-2019, 09:00 PM
RenoHuskerDu's Avatar
RenoHuskerDu
RenoHuskerDu is offline
Elder User
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 846
RenoHuskerDu is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
You're right, we had it backwards. The split boot was on the bank with cyls 1-4. Probably cyl#4

Aaaaaaaand the new COPs have cured the surging, a test today confirmed. No more codes.
 
  #13  
Old 01-03-2019, 12:28 AM
Sam I Am's Avatar
Sam I Am
Sam I Am is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Fort Smith, Arkansas
Posts: 1,597
Sam I Am has a good reputation on FTE.Sam I Am has a good reputation on FTE.
Here is a post I made about reading misfires using Torque Pro app:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post18391886
 


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us About Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.