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1967 - 1972 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Bumpsides Ford Truck

Running good and then just quit, help.

 
  #31  
Old 12-28-2018, 02:45 AM
Kurttb1
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Originally Posted by yardbird View Post
Definitely better gas mileage, and lots more power. Will run much better cold also. The engine is starving for fuel with .50s.......50 is small for a 302 where a .52 works better for them. I've done this with those engines and carbs.
Wow I really must be starving my 390 cid with .50s
 
  #32  
Old 12-28-2018, 09:38 AM
Pintlala
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think I accidently posted reply before I was finished . Sorry. Will continue
So, I got to look at it gain yesterday using a good multi-tester. Observations and questions below:
1. Ground of distributer plat was good (0 ohms)
2. No juice going to spark plug,
3. Rotor not spinning or cracked, also 0 ohms contact to top.
4. No apparent cracks in distributer cap
5. 12.5 volts at ignition wire on coil. Coil showed zero resistance in ohms where for an 8 cylinder calls for at least 1.5. Using meter could detect no volts coming out of coil so it may be bad. Will go to town and have the parts place check (if they can with it removed)
6. Connected Igniter red lead to battery as direted by instructions. Did not make a difference.
7. From the Igniter instructions:
The Ignitor can also be installed in applications retaining the ballast resistor or resistance wire.
1. Attach the Ignitor black wire to the negative coil terminal. (See Figure B)

2. Attach the Ignitor red wire to the ignition side of resistance, or any 12 volt ignition power source. (See Figure B)

Think this might be a problem as I went right to the coil. Where do I find the ballast resister or can I bypass/remove it? Do I need a different coil than standard if I do?
Know this is a lot of stuff but I have 'sentimental' reasons for keeping this "fine old beast" (as my father called it) running well.

 
  #33  
Old 12-28-2018, 11:07 AM
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Thought we had already determined there was spark from the coil wire to ground? Is that not the case?

In any event to measure ohms resistance of the primary winding of an ignition coil, measure between the + pos and - neg terminals. Just so everybody is on the same page. About 1.5 ohms is what we want to see. To measure the secondary or high tension winding, measure between either terminal and the center receptacle for coil wire. This might be something like 8k to 10k ohms. Many coils are replaced unnecessarily, though they do go bad. Just not very often.

You could run a wire direct to positive + terminal on the coil for test purposes . Don't leave it connected any longer than to make the test. This is assuming you have a 1.5 ohm coil. Keep in mind the reason for this ohms resistance business is to prevent excessive current flow (heat) from burning up the module. The Ignitor will run in a wide voltage range, something like 8 to 16 volts. Neither points nor the Ignitor are too picky about volts, but they will burn up with too many amps flowing through them. The Ignitor doesn't want to see more than about 8 amps current. If you use Ohm's Law, you can figure whether something is going to get roasted with any coil and ballast combination.

Too much resistance may lower the voltage to the point where an Ignitor won't reliably trigger. Resistance adds up, it's not just the coil resistance itself, part of the problem is there's probably 10 or 12 connections in the primary ignition wiring circuit that can be corroded or high resistance by now. The ballast wire in Fords is connected to the ignition switch and is pink under the dash. It is spliced into a regular wire somewhere in there and connects to the starter solenoid relay.

Keep in mind this ballast wire is bypassed during START for full voltage to the coil and a temporarily hotter spark. Only when the key is released to RUN is the ballast wire is in circuit to keep the current down. Points need about 3.0 ohms total resistance (Ballast + Coil) to keep them from burning up.

The Ignitor 1 module only needs a minimum of 1.5 ohms. It is not required to bypass the ballast wire when using the Ignitor, but - let's say for argument it's not a 1.5 ohm coil you have, but a 3.0 ohm coil, and, further, the connections throughout are corroded as might be typical in an old truck. So there might be potentially 5+ Ohms resistance depending on how everything shakes out. Try measuring the entire primary ignition circuit end to end and see what you got.
 
  #34  
Old 12-31-2018, 04:31 PM
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So after accurately testing coil. it is good. To see if the new Ignitor was the problem, I changed back to the points and condenser. When manually turning the crank to set the points, I saw that the rotor/distributer shaft were not turning. NOT GOOD. Turned over engine with starter and still no distributer rotation. Pulled distributer (2 months old from NAPA) all looked good, gear at bottom tight and in place. Looked into the area where the distributer goes and inspected gear (do not know what it is called) I could just see. Checked to see if it turns with starter or manually, NO! it did not. I replaced the timing gears and chain 2 months ago and truck has been running fine until now. No grinding noises when it happened, no sputtering, just quit. Suggestions?
 
  #35  
Old 12-31-2018, 05:23 PM
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If you were looking at the shaft that drives the oil pump, that will not turn with the engine. The distributor being driven off of the cam gear is what turns the shaft with the hex-shaped end.

Now, if you are talking about the teeth on the cam gear itself not turning, then yikes!!!! Yes, the only reason I can think of that this might not turn with the engine is that the chain broke already (seems very unlikely though), or the key in the keyway in the crankshaft has failed somehow, or perhaps the single bolt holding the cam gear to the cam has failed in some way. Either coming loose, or breaking off.

Are you running a mechanical fuel pump with an eccentric on the cam gear? I don't remember if we talked about that.

Paul
 
  #36  
Old 12-31-2018, 05:23 PM
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And did you look down the hole with a good light? So you could see everything?
Just checking.

Paul
 
  #37  
Old 12-31-2018, 08:00 PM
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Good light used and definitely the gear is not moving that would engage the distributer gear. Mechanical fuel pump being used and is pumping gas. Will take off a valve cover tomorrow and see if valves are functioning. Maybe one of the gears came loose some how but have not heard anything odd from that area.. CAn the gear on the cam shaft come loose (shear pin type set-up)?
 
  #38  
Old 12-31-2018, 09:55 PM
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If the fuel pump is still pumping, then the cam is turning. Not possible otherwise to move the lever to pump the pump.
Not sure what's going on then. Did you re-re-verify that the gear on the distributor has not sheared it's pin?
It's possible that the oil pump seized up for whatever reason and spun the gear when it's in the engine, but there's enough resistance for it to still feel tight. If that's the case though, a decent tug on it will tell the tale.
I know it sounds like you did this already, but I'm just grasping at straws at this point. Having the fuel pump working without the cam turning isn't likely.

I wonder. Do you think the pump is still working based on the truck idling for a few minutes? Since it's not running now, how do you know it's pumping?

Paul
 
  #39  
Old 01-01-2019, 07:54 AM
Pintlala
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1TonBasecamp, good points, I am basing fuel pump still pumping on squirt from accelerator pump. Will pull line and verify. Is the valve cover removal and look at valve function a good verification? Am fairly sure that the gear on the distributer is tight and that the gear on the cam shaft is not turning. What is this about the oil pump?
 
  #40  
Old 01-01-2019, 09:39 AM
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Do you have compression ?
 
  #41  
Old 01-01-2019, 10:19 AM
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Have not put a gauge on it but seems to have some when I turn the crankshaft with a socket and pull bar by the way the amount of effort required changes. I will test it tomorrow.
 
  #42  
Old 01-01-2019, 05:40 PM
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Sorry to hear about possible major problems. It will be interesting to find out what is going on.
 
  #43  
Old 01-01-2019, 08:05 PM
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Could be something simple as a bad timing chain.
 
  #44  
Old 01-02-2019, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Pintlala View Post
Is the valve cover removal and look at valve function a good verification?
Yep. If you crank the engine, whether with the starter or just by hand, and the rocker arms do not move up and down then you have a non-functioning cam drive system.
Whether that's from a broken chain, a loose cam bolt, or worn gear teeth for some reason, you need to go back in under the cover and inspect/replace whatever is broken.

If the rockers do work up and down however, the drive chain and gears are working. But since you are looking into the chain well and do not see the cam gear rotating, it's a good bet you won't see the vale rocker arms working either.
I can't remember exactly what you see first when looking down the distributor hole, but pretty sure that from different angles you should be able to see all the important bits. Distributor drive gear (part of the camshaft), cam timing gear (bolted to the front of the camshaft), timing chain, and at least a little bit of the crank timing gear too.
Not to mention the oil pump drive shaft.

Originally Posted by Pintlala View Post
What is this about the oil pump?
Just that it's there down near the bottom of the distributor hole and I was wondering if you were expecting that to be turning. It sounded like you were looking at the correct things, and you did say "gear" when talking about what was not turning. But I still wanted to make sure you were not basing your diagnosis on the pump shaft not turning. When the distributor is out of the engine the shaft does not turn. So that would have been normal.
Obviously the fact that the distributor rotor was not turning meant either that your cam was not turning, or the gear on your distributor shaft had become detached.
Fortunately for most, it's usually the distributor shaft gear that fails. The teeth wear out or the roll pin shears. But since you say the gear is tight on the shaft, the only thing left is that somehow your cam has become detached from the crank. Sounds like you're going to be digging deeper into the engine very soon unfortunately.

Paul
 
  #45  
Old 01-02-2019, 01:22 AM
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And I did say 1 bolt on the front of the cam, but I'm not really sure if that's how it works on a 360. When I said that I was thinking about a Windsor. I've never had a 360 torn down myself.
Might be the same for many Ford engines, but "assuming" is not a good thing sometimes. You might remember however, since you had it apart just 2 months ago.

Paul
 

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