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6.0L Power Stroke Diesel 2003 - 2007 F250, F350 pickup and F350+ Cab Chassis, 2003 - 2005 Excursion and 2003 - 2009 van

Ford Dealership Frustration

 
  #16  
Old 12-19-2018, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jh818 View Post
That's interesting. I got my '06 F350 dually for about 18 months now and the price on these with the 6.0 hasn't budged in the last 2 years. They selling at around $18k or so give and take $1k or so. Lower priced ones are the ones with over 200k miles.
We've (the forum) talked about this before but 6 or so years ago a 100k mile DRW crew could be had for 16k. Now try to find that truck on a lot for less. $21k with well over 100k miles is pretty common.
 
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Old 12-19-2018, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by TooManyToys. View Post
Sometimes I just like to take the contrarian position, nothing personal.

As a trade in, "Bulletproofed" means nothing.
Yeah, that's what I had thought too, but the salesman was the one that first mentioned the term while explaining what a POS the 6.0 is and that "bulletproofed" might be an exception. I replied that I did in fact stud it, upgraded stand pipes/dummy plugs, SCT, ...etc. Then he continued to say that even though, it wasn't worth much and that it would just be wholesaled out and that they don't even want them on the lot. Thing is, I wasn't looking for $20K or something, just trade in value, which I'e expect to be around +/- $10K for a 150K mile truck in great running condition. Nope, just talked crap.
 
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:23 AM
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Trade-in is a different world than personal or used car sales. And there are some dealerships that only want to resell 2-3 year old vehicles, everything else goes to auction. And auction can be brutal.

With Pete's comment above, in the used car trade in opposition to T diesel's, the 6.0L is getting an improvement after 6.4Ls coming apart and the fuel system issues with early 6.7L. There are so many people I've talked to that have the same opinion about the 6.4, wouldn't touch one. A 6.0 can be made reliable by good mechanics and good maintenance.
 
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Old 12-19-2018, 11:29 AM
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All of the mods on mine were done at Ford by qualified diesel techs so I'd assume that they are properly done by qualified mechanics. I've been pretty **** about maintenance too, but I suppose that doesn't matter much with an old truck. I just thought that they would be more inclined to sell a new vehicle and keep the insults out of the conversation. People have pride in their vehicles. I dunno, I just don't see it the way they do, but I guess I'm not the one accepting something comes with a stigma of a questionable reputation. Still though, just give solid numbers if they want to sell a truck. There's no reason to derogatorily expand. Bad form, IMO.
 
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Old 12-19-2018, 11:59 AM
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Any used vehicle can be a money pit, diesel trucks just cost more to fix. The dealer knows that a used F250/F350 is in high demand 6.0L or not. In fact, the 6.0L is now the best value on the market. It has no DPF, parts and procedures are readily available and it is fairly easy to work on. Aging 7.3L are also in demand but now the newest ones are 15 years old.

Ford has always had cars and trucks that were garbage in the used market. I have not been in the car business for a long time but when I was Gen 1 Explorers had head problems. Gen 2 Explorers valve train problems. Taurus's had transmission problems and 3.8L head problems. Contours had quality issues all around. Aerostars transmission problems. Windstars 3.8L head problems. Again, a long time ago but nothing is new here. The dealer wants to make a bunch off of your truck and by telling you it is junk they hope you will give it to them.
 
  #21  
Old 12-19-2018, 12:34 PM
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Bulletproofing a 6.0 or a 6.4 is putting lipstick on a pig. Both are money pits.
Well a 6.4 is a MONEY PIT!
 
  #22  
Old 12-19-2018, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by olfordsnstone View Post
All of the mods on mine were done at Ford by qualified diesel techs so I'd assume that they are properly done by qualified mechanics. I've been pretty **** about maintenance too, but I suppose that doesn't matter much with an old truck. I just thought that they would be more inclined to sell a new vehicle and keep the insults out of the conversation. People have pride in their vehicles. I dunno, I just don't see it the way they do, but I guess I'm not the one accepting something comes with a stigma of a questionable reputation. Still though, just give solid numbers if they want to sell a truck. There's no reason to derogatorily expand. Bad form, IMO.
Well said Tim
 
  #23  
Old 12-19-2018, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by olfordsnstone View Post
All of the mods on mine were done at Ford by qualified diesel techs so I'd assume that they are properly done by qualified mechanics. I've been pretty **** about maintenance too, but I suppose that doesn't matter much with an old truck. I just thought that they would be more inclined to sell a new vehicle and keep the insults out of the conversation. People have pride in their vehicles. I dunno, I just don't see it the way they do, but I guess I'm not the one accepting something comes with a stigma of a questionable reputation. Still though, just give solid numbers if they want to sell a truck. There's no reason to derogatorily expand. Bad form, IMO.
You have the same problem I do. We are too attached. I'd be pretty butt hurt too but then again look at the source so I'd blow it off. But then again maybe I would go totally high school on his *** and I'd probably ask him where is the car he drives every day? Then I'd RIP it apart because I can find fault in almost anything.
Then again for any of that to happen I would of had to offer my truck on trade and that just won't happen.
 
  #24  
Old 12-19-2018, 08:43 PM
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Why let it go for a huge payment? If it is doing well, keep running it. 500,000 miles is badge of honor! That sales guy can suck a bag of di****. Move on.
 
  #25  
Old 12-19-2018, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by BBslider001 View Post
Why let it go for a huge payment? If it is doing well, keep running it. 500,000 miles is badge of honor! That sales guy can suck a bag of di****. Move on.
I hear ya. That's pretty much what I told him on the way out, that I'd drive her till the wheels fall off then buy a dodge. Not that I really felt that way, just wanted to give a poke... The thing is, I'm at a point in life where IF I'm going to buy a new truck, frankly, now is probably my last hurrah. Being retired now and all, I'd like to hit the road with trailer in tow in a nice new truck that will give me years of service, modern comforts and miles and miles of worry free travel. Oh well. I'm not going to let that guy spoil my plan. Just gotta think outside of the box a bit.
 
  #26  
Old 12-20-2018, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by olfordsnstone View Post
I hear ya. That's pretty much what I told him on the way out, that I'd drive her till the wheels fall off then buy a dodge. Not that I really felt that way, just wanted to give a poke... The thing is, I'm at a point in life where IF I'm going to buy a new truck, frankly, now is probably my last hurrah. Being retired now and all, I'd like to hit the road with trailer in tow in a nice new truck that will give me years of service, modern comforts and miles and miles of worry free travel. Oh well. I'm not going to let that guy spoil my plan. Just gotta think outside of the box a bit.
That's what I thought when I bought my 2005. I'm now in a 2015.
 
  #27  
Old 12-20-2018, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by olfordsnstone View Post
I'd like to hit the road with trailer in tow in a nice new truck that will give me years of service, modern comforts and miles and miles of worry free travel.
Have you looked into the 2017 up and the 6.7L engine forums?

"Miles and miles of worry free travel" is not a given. Even with a warranty, and then on top of that, an expensive extra cost warranty to extend the original warranty, there are still worries.

Enough worries to want to buy from the dealership that is closest and most convenient to where you will spend the most time. If Reno is your home, and the Reno dealership is closest to you, then that's the place to buy the truck, provided they have a good service department. Any Ford dealer can do warranty work on a new truck, regardless of where that new truck was purchased. That's part of the dealership franchise agreement. That's on paper. That's how things are supposed to work.

But in reality, things happen, or don't happen, as a result of small decisions made by individual people. And people are not paper. People fudge, fidget, fumble, and feel. An example of this is the sales experience this thread began with. The individual sales person... not Ford Motor Company, and not even the Ford dealership... but an individual sales person's decision to prepare you for a low trade in offer by playing down the value of your truck... was all it took to turn you away from not only the dealership, but the brand itself. He fumbled a bit in the finesse department, and you felt hurt. End of transaction. Let's pretend the salesperson didn't f that up, and the deal moved forward. Had there been any fudging in the finance department, and you didn't happen to notice, you may not have felt anything, and the deal would carry on, with more detriment to your bottom line than the denigration of your ego earlier. This human dynamic illustrates that regardless of rules, this is ultimately a people play.

So the people servicing your truck, and in particular the Service Manager, Service Writer, and Diesel Tech, all of whose small decisions on how the problems are written up on paper, the papers that Ford reviews to determine whose at fault and what will be covered under warranty... those people behind the service desk at the dealership will feel better about you knowing that you bought the truck from their dealership. That doesn't mean that you are no less entitled to the same level of service if you did not buy the truck from their dealership, but remember, we are following the laws of human nature, not the rules of the franchise agreement. The people of that service department can fudge and fidget with Ford on your behalf if they like you.

What that sales person said about your truck is simply standard operating sales procedure that should be expected by any salesman at any dealership of any brand. Take it in stride. That's the game that people play.

Go back there, and ask to speak with the same guy you walked away from. Look him in the eye and say, "You know, you ticked me off so much dissing my truck, I never had the chance to hear exactly how much you would give me for it. I'd like that number now, so I can compare what you are offering to what another dealer has offered for it." Don't tell him who the other dealer is. Don't tell him the offer amount. (Do, however, actually get a trade in offer from somewhere, even if it is a Toyota dealer, as that will help you exude the kind of authoritative confidence that only telling the truth can muster). Let him give you his number. Now you have useful information, instead of a burned bridge. Play to win.
 
  #28  
Old 12-20-2018, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Y2KW57 View Post
Have you looked into the 2017 up and the 6.7L engine forums?

"Miles and miles of worry free travel" is not a given. Even with a warranty, and then on top of that, an expensive extra cost warranty to extend the original warranty, there are still worries.

Enough worries to want to buy from the dealership that is closest and most convenient to where you will spend the most time. If Reno is your home, and the Reno dealership is closest to you, then that's the place to buy the truck, provided they have a good service department. Any Ford dealer can do warranty work on a new truck, regardless of where that new truck was purchased. That's part of the dealership franchise agreement. That's on paper. That's how things are supposed to work.

But in reality, things happen, or don't happen, as a result of small decisions made by individual people. And people are not paper. People fudge, fidget, fumble, and feel. An example of this is the sales experience this thread began with. The individual sales person... not Ford Motor Company, and not even the Ford dealership... but an individual sales person's decision to prepare you for a low trade in offer by playing down the value of your truck... was all it took to turn you away from not only the dealership, but the brand itself. He fumbled a bit in the finesse department, and you felt hurt. End of transaction. Let's pretend the salesperson didn't f that up, and the deal moved forward. Had there been any fudging in the finance department, and you didn't happen to notice, you may not have felt anything, and the deal would carry on, with more detriment to your bottom line than the denigration of your ego earlier. This human dynamic illustrates that regardless of rules, this is ultimately a people play.

So the people servicing your truck, and in particular the Service Manager, Service Writer, and Diesel Tech, all of whose small decisions on how the problems are written up on paper, the papers that Ford reviews to determine whose at fault and what will be covered under warranty... those people behind the service desk at the dealership will feel better about you knowing that you bought the truck from their dealership. That doesn't mean that you are no less entitled to the same level of service if you did not buy the truck from their dealership, but remember, we are following the laws of human nature, not the rules of the franchise agreement. The people of that service department can fudge and fidget with Ford on your behalf if they like you.

What that sales person said about your truck is simply standard operating sales procedure that should be expected by any salesman at any dealership of any brand. Take it in stride. That's the game that people play.

Go back there, and ask to speak with the same guy you walked away from. Look him in the eye and say, "You know, you ticked me off so much dissing my truck, I never had the chance to hear exactly how much you would give me for it. I'd like that number now, so I can compare what you are offering to what another dealer has offered for it." Don't tell him who the other dealer is. Don't tell him the offer amount. (Do, however, actually get a trade in offer from somewhere, even if it is a Toyota dealer, as that will help you exude the kind of authoritative confidence that only telling the truth can muster). Let him give you his number. Now you have useful information, instead of a burned bridge. Play to win.
Very nice. Thanks for your input. Eloquent delivery, BTW.
 
  #29  
Old 12-22-2018, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by olfordsnstone View Post
So, I stopped by a Ford Dealership in Reno Nevada to look at the new Super Duty's. The salesman told me quite a bit about the new generation trucks and I was pretty impressed and getting pretty close to pulling the trigger on A NEW TRUCK ! ! ! Wow, it's hard to imagine that I was really going to do this, but I'd done the math and I think I can do this. The hardest thing, other than that monthly payment, would be to let go of my old 05 Super Duty. She's been such a great tow vehicle, but is now getting a little old to have no concern heading out on the road with trailer in tow and feel completely confident, though she'd been continually amazing me with reliability, especially since bullet proofing... I'm thinking new sounds like what I want and I want it now! WTH, I can do this...

Then the salesman asked, "what do you have for a trade-in". I told him about my 05 F350. He asked what engine. I answered, "6.0". That's when things got dicy. He began talking down my truck saying that they won't give me much for it and it would just be wholesaled out and that they wouldn't even park it on the lot. I told him that I it's been a good truck and that I did in fact "bullet proof" it, but he just kept ******* my truck like it was a POS. I asked him, "Then why the hell did you guys tell me it was such a good truck when I bought it new" and "What makes you think I'd buy another one from you guys when you're now admitting that you guys lied?" After bantering a bit, I figured I'd had enough of this butt hole and said "See ya, I'll just drive this truck till the wheels fall off then buy a friggin' Dodge".

Is this what I should expect from all Ford Dealerships or should I just avoid Jones West Ford in Reno? Maybe it's true, that I won't get much for my truck, but it's more a matter of principle when this butt head didn't even bother to offer to look up and give blue book value, he just began verbally ******* my ride. If this is the kind of treatment I'm going to get from Ford, then I'll look elsewhere for my new ride. Out of personal principle and scruples GMC is completely out of the question, especially after what they did to their folks and families, closing plants and laying off so many of their employees just before Christmas Holidays, SMH. It would be a tough pill to swallow, but if Ford is going to screw loyal customers like this, then, on personal principle, Dodge is the only option to choose to drag my fifth wheel around.

OK, vent over. Thoughts?
I was in your shoes back in '12 when I traded my 05 6.0PSD for my current '12 6.7PSD truck. When it comes to a dealer trade in the 6.0PSD has such a bad reputation it doesn't matter how well you maintained your truck, modifications made, bulletproof, and with it's age these trucks will always be sold to a wholesaler and that's the bottom line. My 05 never saw the dealer used lot and was simply sold to a wholesaler at 6 years old.

If you want to get the $$$ you think it's worth then the only way is to sell it yourself.

Good luck...
 
  #30  
Old 12-22-2018, 01:21 PM
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Tim, First off I totally get the "move on to another dealer" thinking. We have a local dealer in Auburn, it's been through ownership change and I have had such a bad experience with BOTH owner's service departments that I'd NEVER buy a vehicle there. I also understand the nagging feeling of just wanting trouble free miles -- I did a thread here about a friend, who took really good care of his 6.0. Problem is they were having some smaller things go out the last couple of years that were making trips not so fun. Then he had an injector fail on trip that pretty much toasted the motor... He and I talked a lot, and in the end he has a new 6.7 on order, due in at the 1st of the year. He and his wife figure they only have so many more trailering years left, so let's enjoy them. He and I both qualify for X-plan pricing, which is a pretty good no-haggle deal, but I told him he could beat that with a little work. My friend contacted 3 dealerships and worked each ones Internet Sales Manager against the other -- He told them he'd be ordering and asked for the best discount, without any incentives included, they would give him. Took a few days and 2 personal visits with the best offers and he ordered, and beat X-Plan...

Switching subjects slightly: I just helped a friend get a ripping deal on a new F150 Down at Future Ford of Roseville. How I did it was call down there first and ask for a New Car Sales Manager -- skip the meet-n-greet you at the door salesmen like it sounds you ran into. I got lucky and the person I got was not just a New Car Sales Manager, but THE New Car Sales Manager, who gave me a deal over the phone better than any other I'd gotten thus far. My friend and I went to do final negotiations in person and I got another $900 off the already good price. The Manager sat across the table and said: There is no one I have to go to and have the deal ok'd -- all the others bring the deal sheets to ME for ok and I'll tell you if we can do it or not, right here and right now. And that is how it went down... I would be happy to pass on his contact info. to you as he is the one selling my other friend the truck on order. It might be worth your drive...

In all cases I leave the trade in off the table, until you have a deal on the new truck. If they give you a good enough trade-in price, it's now part of your down payment, if not sell it yourself and double your money... PM me if you want the contact info.

Best of luck to you, Tim, with whatever you end up doing...

Scott

On edit and to Y2Ks post on the 6.7s having issues -- I do not agree with him on this subject. I talk to anybody with a Ford truck when we camp and I have ran into my fair share of folks with 6.0s and their horror stories. Over the years the Fords dwindled in our horse camps, until the 6.7 came out. I have yet to talk to anyone who absolutely doesn't LOVE theirs. I have several friends now with them -- no problems (other than minor stuff all new cars will have). Yes go spend time up in the 6.7 forum, Talk to Mike (69cj) and also m-chan68 (also Mike and a Ford Tech) and ask them -- these guys both went from 6.0s to 6.7s and spend enough time with 6.7s or on that forum to give you some great input...
 

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