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Obs ford Cummins swap

 
  #1  
Old 12-15-2018, 03:01 PM
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Obs ford Cummins swap

I'm swapping a 01 24v with a nv5600 into my 92 f350...

Got most of it figured out but I need to build a new x-member and I'm not sure what angle I should set the output shaft at...

Rough numbers are 5 degrees up on the differedifferential... taking into account for axle wrap I'm thinking I should set the motor/transmission at 3 degrees down?

Think this is right but not sure...

Thanks
 
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Old 12-16-2018, 03:22 AM
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Ok... let me try again...

First thing I don't fully understand driveline design or engineering lol... I've been reading and get a bit of it... but most of the stuff I've been reading is about existing drivelines and I don't have one yet Haha...

I also don't have a degree tool yet... but I did download an app that does driveline angles... I will get a proper tool... but for now I'll use my hand dandy smart phone lol

My differential pinion is at about 5 to 6 degrees up. .

My engine and transmission is yet to be set as I have to fabricate a new transmission x-member

I've read that the transmission output and differential pinion need to be on the same plane... I've also read that with leafspring axles you want to add 2 to 4 degrees extra to account for axle wrap...

So that would make my preferred transmission yolk output degree at 3 degrees down...

Right?

Anyone know?
 
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Old 12-16-2018, 11:59 AM
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First of all, I think most people start with the engine/trans/transfer case angle and adjust the rear end to work with what's in front of it. Clearance for everything in a LARGE engine/trans will limit your options. And it's pretty hard to adjust the front axle pinion angle without screwing up the steering geometry, so if you have any wiggle room in the transfer case angles you probably want to try to work out the front driveshaft first. If your rear angles are wrong at that point it's pretty easy to cut off the spring perches and weld new ones on to whatever angle you need.

That said, when the axle is trying to twist the tires forward, Newton tells us that the tires are trying to twist the axle backward, which raises the pinion and increases the pinion up-angle. So if you're trying to dial it in to take axle wrap into account, a 5 deg up pinion angle would work well with a 6 or 7 degree down angle on the transfer case rear output.
 
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Old 12-16-2018, 10:57 PM
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Thanks for the info!

got got the transmission in today... was worried about room but I just have enough.

Going to start on the x-member...

Some pictures:

Ginormous transmission and my bud




 
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Old 12-17-2018, 09:34 PM
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Did some calling around and went to a very reputable driveline shop...

From what I've read and the people I've talked to most engines/transmissions sit at a 3 degree till down at the rear from factory...

The shop owner I talked to said that most v8 engine manifolds actually have a 3 degree slope built in to them so carburetor when installed sits level...

So... going to sit my engine 3 degrees down to the rear... nice to finally have a number lol
 
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Old 12-27-2018, 01:43 PM
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Got some goodies from Canada post... 5'' exhaust and champion 4 core radiator...

omg I had no idea how big 5'' exhaust is lol... definitely overkill but I got a great deal on it... going to be tough to fit with the nv5600 and transmission crossmember...

Been laying under my truck trying to figure out how to make a transmission crossmember... not much room for even 4'' exhaust let alone 5''... plus I think I need something pretty strong to hold my hp goal...so...

I found this:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/trd-4539

With the frame boxed in and this crossmember I can make it work. It will have to hang half way below the frame with bolts exposed...but the skid plate should hide it. Got it from Amazon Canada with free shipping for prime members... man I love Amazon Haha.

Radiator looks pretty. . some questionable reviews of it though... but not alot of options for these old trucks. Mounted to the rad support and everything I'm not going to have enough room for the Cummins fan assembly. Kinda disappointed as I thought I was going to. But I vaguely remember reading in the dcs instructions that I may have to move the engine back.

Not interested in moving the engine back as I think it looks good where it is! Haha... moving it back causes some problems. Motor will be very close to firewall and probably will require some love from my sledgehammer, my 4'' downpipe is already tight... will probably require cutting the tunnel/floorpan to make adequate room. Shifter moves more... its already 4 inches or so back from where it was... and the transmission crossmember may become an issue as the frame starts to transition at the point where I want it now. So that leaves me with efans.

Efans suck...lol... turns my do anything tow anything truck into a play truck. Now I might be exaggerating but not by much.

Efans will never flow as much as the mechanical fan... efan kits for newer trucks plainly state there not for towing.

So I'm going to do the best I can with the room I have and install 4 fans. 2 12' and 2 10''... this with a shroud ( still not sure about the shroud) and a good controller should be able to tow in all but extremely hot situations... but I am in Canada the land of ice and snow... so I think it'll be ok. And actually I have never and don't think I will ever tow super heavy.

Going to use this controller:
constant temperature controllers

And some Ebay fans... Ebay fans save me over 500 bucks over name brand. And hopefully the controller will make them last longer as it's a pwm controller. Yhe fans will probably be the only part that is questionable as far as quality... but 500 bucks is 500 bucks! And I'm willing to try it only because I have 4 fans and that gives me some redundancy.



 
  #7  
Old 12-30-2018, 11:47 PM
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More stuff on the fans...

So I've been chatting with Brian at delta current control... super knowledgeable guy who sells the pwm fan controller... and he said that the Ford contour fan 1999-2000...or cougar fan might work.... he gave me a link to some measurements he made and wow I think it will totally work... a search for them online shows them available new for less than 100 bucks American!

I'd end up running two of the fan assembly's with 4 fans total and a draw of 60 or 70 amps max ( ya that means an alt upgrade) but with 6800cfm! That's a pretty big upgrade and gets pretty close to the 10000+ I hear the mechanical fan puts out... and 1300cfm more than the fan kits for the dodge diesel trucks... probably the best solution I've seen yet.

Going to buy a couple of them and see if they are going to be able to be modified to fit... sure looks like they can but its tight with intercooler piping...

Anyone interested here's a link to the fan with measurements. Keep in mind that the fan you see is slightly modified with his controller. I think he sells them or did at one point.

33212 Information

With moving the radiator locating pins at the bottom of the rad support and redesigning the upper rad mounts I've been able to get to 4'' of room... only thing in the way is the threads for the fan and only by half an inch... I could probably machine it off...

Just thought I'd share and give some options for others



 
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Old 01-02-2019, 11:53 AM
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I don't think that tranny crossmember will hold up between the weight of the tranny and the torque with just a .114 wall thickness, I'd be looking for at least 3/16, if not 1/4 thick tube. On the 79 and older trucks they cut out then fab a new engine crossmember to get the engine lower and back more to run the stock mechanical fan, worth looking into. Dodge spec is 3-5deg down for the 12v, probably the same for 24v, it's all about driveline angles. Cummins doesn't have a specified operating angle as they are generally installed level in industrial applications.
 
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Old 01-02-2019, 05:07 PM
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I agree that the crossmember may be a little light... there is good reviews on summit with some stating its holding big hp and torque. I also think it may not be bad because its not going to be used at full length .. its actually just over its minimum of 26' ... my thoughts is the shorter it is the stronger it will be. I'll judge it when it gets here. If its to light I'll send it back.

I think the 3 degrees down is right... my engine is probably as low as it can go. With my rear pinion at 5 to 6 degrees up I think everything is good. 2+ degrees extra on the rear suspension is what I've been told is right for leafspring suspension and the axle wrap that comes with...

Thank for the good points... especially the crossmember...
 
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Old 01-03-2019, 06:33 PM
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Ya this crossmember isn't going to work... .... .... dam!

Ok guess I'm going to learn how to fabricate one... not happy about that.

I have come up with an idea... the crossmember needs to be bolted to the bottom of the frame... I'm thinking 4''x2'' .250 hot rolled steel. Two half inch bolts through frame and a reinforcing bracket inside of frame with two bolts as well. Short run then the 4x2 crossmember gets lowered the 2'' and welded. I think that's strong enough and gives me the ability to remove it.

No way am I going to be able to fabricate anything else really... mostly because of my skill level but also because my 5'' exhaust is in the way along with the ginormous transmission lol.

Don't laugh at my drawing! But feel free to give me some criticism or ideas...

 
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Old 01-06-2019, 04:58 PM
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Ok...

Went out and purchased 5''x2''x.25 tube.

Man this stuff is probably overkill but whatever...

So rather than making a three piece crossmember and welding it up I've managed to come up with a solution that doesn't require a bunch of fabrication. I'm going to use the 5x2 to span across the frame rails and instead of the dodge transmission mount use isolators similar to the dcs motor mounts. Saves me a bunch of time and fabrication and I think a little bit tougher. It also will work in less room so win win.
 
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Old 01-15-2019, 09:21 PM
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Ok... fans showed up !

Looks like they will fit almost perfectly... not much room between intercooler piping and edge of rad but I think it'll be ok with a bit of trimming and moulding with a heat gun... there basically 1/4'' to wide.

7000cfm and 65amps at full tilt... should be more than enough to cool the beast!
 
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:30 PM
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So if the dodge had a 130 amp alternator... and the fans have a draw of 65 amps at 100%... anyone have any idea how big of an alternator I need?

I'm looking at the mechman 240 or 320 amp alternator...

I'm thinking the 240 would be enough...

Thoughts?

I should add that I truly think the fans won't be running at 100%... my guess is they'll be at 50% and 30amps at 5000cfm for the most part
 
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Old 01-18-2019, 08:36 AM
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I went with a 230 amp leece neville alternator that was an option on the 7.3 6.0 engines.
https://www.nationsstarteralternator...8307ln-230.htm
 
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Old 01-22-2019, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by goodB0Y View Post
Got some goodies from Canada post... 5'' exhaust and champion 4 core radiator...

omg I had no idea how big 5'' exhaust is lol... definitely overkill but I got a great deal on it... going to be tough to fit with the nv5600 and transmission crossmember...

Been laying under my truck trying to figure out how to make a transmission crossmember... not much room for even 4'' exhaust let alone 5''... plus I think I need something pretty strong to hold my hp goal...so...

I found this:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/trd-4539

With the frame boxed in and this crossmember I can make it work. It will have to hang half way below the frame with bolts exposed...but the skid plate should hide it. Got it from Amazon Canada with free shipping for prime members... man I love Amazon Haha.

Radiator looks pretty. . some questionable reviews of it though... but not alot of options for these old trucks. Mounted to the rad support and everything I'm not going to have enough room for the Cummins fan assembly. Kinda disappointed as I thought I was going to. But I vaguely remember reading in the dcs instructions that I may have to move the engine back.

Not interested in moving the engine back as I think it looks good where it is! Haha... moving it back causes some problems. Motor will be very close to firewall and probably will require some love from my sledgehammer, my 4'' downpipe is already tight... will probably require cutting the tunnel/floorpan to make adequate room.
5 inch exhaust is enough for a diesel twice that size. Not sure why you'd go through that for no gain.
 

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