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AMSoil Virgin Oil Analysis vs Motorcraft factory fill

  #1  
Old 12-09-2018, 03:33 PM
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AMSoil Virgin Oil Analysis vs Motorcraft factory fill

Hi Guys/Gals,

I just wanted to share on a topic that may interest anyone who cares a little or a lot on the type of oil they put in their vehicles.

I did an oil analysis on the factory fill in my 2017 PSD and then did a virgin analysis on the AMSoil 5w40 I have used ever since.

My main goal back then was to analyze the phosphorus level since the new F1 standard increased this requirement in order to protect the valves long term.

1097 for the factory fill.
1233 for the AMSoil.

Not saying the AMSoil is better than the factory fill...I just wanted to share that some oils contain more of this protective additive than others.




 
  #2  
Old 12-09-2018, 04:01 PM
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I read an old thread about oil analysis of Amsoil. It may have been your thread.

I love Amsoil and I use it in everything but my main oil changes but I haven't decided if I'm going to use Amsoil when my new truck comes in or go with a wally world rotella 90.

Not sure I can justify these prices I got from the AMSOIL guy I use.

A case of Quarts plus one, (13 qts), is $129.03 delivered at my cost…this is a 25.7% discount
A case of Gallons plus 10 qts (enough for two oil changes) is $245.82 delivered.
A 2.5 gal twin pack plus 6 qts (enough for two oil changes) comes to $241.04 delivered.

I also priced out enough for 5 oil changes and it was "17 gallons will be $592.88" which is free shipping.

What do you pay ?
 
  #3  
Old 12-09-2018, 04:08 PM
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Saw an Ecoboost (that needed a new timing chain) that had had extended oil change intervals with Amsoil and it was gooped up beyond belief. It may have contributed to the timing chain issue.
 
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Old 12-09-2018, 06:04 PM
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The last vehicle I used Amzoil in, had to have the rear differential axle bearing repalaced, due to excessive noise.
 
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Old 12-09-2018, 06:58 PM
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It might be good oil but so are most other oils being produced today. I simply do not see any valid reason to step outside of what you can buy in Walmart, NAPA, Autozone etc. Use the right spec oil and and change it when the computer tells you to and call it good.
Amsoil has made a fortune running a pyramid selling system.
 
  #6  
Old 12-09-2018, 08:11 PM
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Can't really call it a valid comparison when you're comparing a virgin, unused, oil sample to a used, although low mileage, sample.
 
  #7  
Old 12-09-2018, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom N OH View Post
Can't really call it a valid comparison when you're comparing a virgin, unused, oil sample to a used, although low mileage, sample.
Aspects of oil like phosphorus donít get consumed that quickly. I have a recent oil analysis where the AMSoil 5w30 after 7,531 miles showed a phosphorus level of 1,176.

At the same Iím really not comparing the 2 oils as additive levels can differ by the same brand oils comparing different viscosity oils.

Poont moted though Iím used vs virgin.

I would love to see motor craft oil virgin analysis in the 10w30 and 15w40 viscosities.
 
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Old 12-09-2018, 09:57 PM
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I would ask Blackstone to test again. Something is off, that TBN of 6 is worse than used oil. I would expect near 9 for the TBN. Also the phosphorus of the Motorcraft is close to 1200ppm on the Virgin. I can't seem to find it on BITOG but of I do I will post it.
 
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Old 12-09-2018, 10:28 PM
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Just drive it, and have fun..
 
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Old 12-10-2018, 07:36 AM
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Amsoil's products are made to be used in extended OCIs (if UOAs warrant continued use ...)
Therefore they have more additives in them that lubes intended for normal OCIs.

However, and this is VERY important to grasp ...
Having "more" of something does not make it better for all uses. The phos, calcium and magnesium are the main additives for wear control (as well as other functions such as cleaning, etc). You must think of this analytically to get this right.

Wear rate data shows that despite the specific additive packages, most all engine have a diminishing slope for wear in the first 15k miles. Does not matter what brand/grade/base stock you use; they ALL have wear rates go down as the OCI matures. This is attributed to the tribo-chemical barrier effect (see Ford/Conoco SAE study 2007-01-4133). Many different brands of oil products use different additive packages, but they all essentially have the same effect; low wear.

Further, there are additives that don't show up in a UOA because they are not able to be detected by spectral analysis. You'd need to know the specific agents (good luck, as most are proprietary) and then you'd have to test them with other reactionary chemical tests, etc. My point being that the UOA won't tell you the whole story of how a lube can protect against wear. It's a good place to start; it's not the place to call it finished.

Regarding the common additives of phos, Ca and Mg, you have to understand how those are affected as the OCI matures. It's not like they are overwhelmed all at the start; there is a rate at which they are "consumed" (not disappear, but lose their effectiveness due to contamination, etc). Wear rates will NOT become lower, just because one lube has more phos than the requirement.

It's not a measure of what's "better" in the front of an OCI. It's a topic of what's more likely to succeed as the miles pour on.

The VOAs are interesting data, but are only an input to an equation that has many, many other inputs as well. What matters is the output; pay attention to UOAs. There is no data that shows heavily dosed syns will reduce wear over their lessor competitors in normal OCIs; none at all. I have over 15,000 UOAs in my database; I would know.
 
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Old 12-10-2018, 08:56 AM
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Read a report about 2 years ago of a guy hitting 1 million miles on a Toyota Tundra with nothing ever breaking in the engine. Owner stated he would stop anywhere convenient to get the oil changed when it was required and he never mentioned using syn oil.
What more does a truck owner require?
 
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Old 12-10-2018, 09:02 AM
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If you're into that sort of thing, have fun with it. To me, it's way overthinking something.
I take mine to a local Ford dealer every 5k miles. It's actually cheaper than the local fast lube I used to go to. As a bonus, the Ford store also rotates the tires and the maintenance is documented with Ford in case of future issues.
 
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ford390gashog View Post
I would ask Blackstone to test again. Something is off, that TBN of 6 is worse than used oil. I would expect near 9 for the TBN. Also the phosphorus of the Motorcraft is close to 1200ppm on the Virgin. I can't seem to find it on BITOG but of I do I will post it.
FYI...regarding your statement on TBN's...those are completely different oils. 6 was for Amsoil and the 7.3 was Motor-craft factory fill.
 
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by dnewton3 View Post
Amsoil's products are made to be used in extended OCIs (if UOAs warrant continued use ...)
Therefore they have more additives in them that lubes intended for normal OCIs.

However, and this is VERY important to grasp ...
Having "more" of something does not make it better for all uses. The phos, calcium and magnesium are the main additives for wear control (as well as other functions such as cleaning, etc). You must think of this analytically to get this right.

Wear rate data shows that despite the specific additive packages, most all engine have a diminishing slope for wear in the first 15k miles. Does not matter what brand/grade/base stock you use; they ALL have wear rates go down as the OCI matures. This is attributed to the tribo-chemical barrier effect (see Ford/Conoco SAE study 2007-01-4133). Many different brands of oil products use different additive packages, but they all essentially have the same effect; low wear.

Further, there are additives that don't show up in a UOA because they are not able to be detected by spectral analysis. You'd need to know the specific agents (good luck, as most are proprietary) and then you'd have to test them with other reactionary chemical tests, etc. My point being that the UOA won't tell you the whole story of how a lube can protect against wear. It's a good place to start; it's not the place to call it finished.

Regarding the common additives of phos, Ca and Mg, you have to understand how those are affected as the OCI matures. It's not like they are overwhelmed all at the start; there is a rate at which they are "consumed" (not disappear, but lose their effectiveness due to contamination, etc). Wear rates will NOT become lower, just because one lube has more phos than the requirement.

It's not a measure of what's "better" in the front of an OCI. It's a topic of what's more likely to succeed as the miles pour on.

The VOAs are interesting data, but are only an input to an equation that has many, many other inputs as well. What matters is the output; pay attention to UOAs. There is no data that shows heavily dosed syns will reduce wear over their lessor competitors in normal OCIs; none at all. I have over 15,000 UOAs in my database; I would know.
So many great points in this post I don't know where to start! Thank you for the input on this thread!!!
 
  #15  
Old 12-10-2018, 02:02 PM
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Voa are kind of useless because a lot of the oil add package cannot be detected. I guess if you are just looking for phosphorus, zinc or molybdenum they're ok.

edit: I guess I should have read dnewton post before I posted
 

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