I completely forgot they changed the production schedule to be more inline with the Exp and Nav.. the timeline makes much more sense now. Thanks for pointing that out..

on a side note, I wonder what the Timberline trim level is going to look like on the 2020.

 

Ford makes a great transmission, but it does seem like the first couple years are usually plagued with minor problems. Anybody remember the 6R140 shifting issues on the 2011-2012 trucks? Seems like the forums were full of complaints about it. Dealers throwing solenoids at them and reflashing the computer to try and make it work. Eventually Ford figured it out, but the point is I don't know if I'd want the first one off the line.

 

I know what you mean with the 11-12s.. hell even through 16 the shifting is wrong.. 6th gear bogs down in the high 30s when going up hill

however the 10r140 has been in these trucks testing since 2016 so I would feel pretty confident in them.

 

Great, right when I thought the rumor mills was over for a year or two. Do any of you Ford workers know the gear ratios of the 10-speed?

I know in the 6R80 to the 10R80 the top gear got bumped higher from 0.69 to 0.64. The 9th gear is still 0.69 so you get the best of both world with the lighter duty 10 speed. I'm using the 10R80 in my jeep project just for this reason. The 6R80 are readily available but I want to source a 10R80 (I'll get one out of a wreaked F150 if I have to).

I was hoping to replace my F550 in the 2020MY but now the choice will have to be made in 2019. Old reliable vs. new hotness, it would be a no brain-er but with 4.88 gears in the F550 the higher top gear may be worth the chance.

 

Automatics never were "just cogs lined up" Prior to the current era, the majority of autos always used direct as one gear (but there was no "gear" - everything just locked together to provide direct)

Today's autos are drastically different (not just in the number of "gears"). All of today's modern autos (and DCT/DSG's as well) use a "clutch to clutch" shift strategy. This means that they actually pass through neutral between each shift, as one clutch hands off to another. For example, the 4R100 was not a "clutch to clutch" auto, meaning that one clutch doesn't have to release before the next one applies. On the 4R100 (and most all autos from that era) when the transmission shifts from 1st to 2nd (for example), the first gear clutch never releases (ever when moving forward), and the same with 2nd to 3rd, and the same from 3rd to 4th. When in 4th on a 4R (for example) ALL forward clutch packs are applied continuously as long as it stays in 4th.

The new trannys (6R140 for example) don't work this way at all. They have to release one clutch before the next one applies. This design exists for several reasons, but one is that "clutch to clutch" designs don't require one-way clutches in addition to the clutch pack (which reduces costs), but the timing of the clutch engagements is finely tuned (has to be), which was made possible by electronics. From a tuners perspective, many racers still prefer the old school transmissions because they can be tuned to shift extremely quickly (because they ARE NOT clutch to clutch, they don't go through neutral between gears). Many racers still prefer the 4R100 because they can shift very fast and you really don't need that many gears on a sled puller or drag vehicle. Clutch to clutch trannys usually don't have a direct ratio either (all ratios are optimized).

 

Wait, what? Never heard about Timberline trim level. I even did a search...nothing. This is exciting.

 

Ford trademarked Timberline this Spring. Insiders stating it is a 2020 trim line on the SD. We shall see...

 

Interesting - I've always heard the newer dual-clutch transmissions shifted much faster than the traditional automatic gearbox. Or maybe I didn't follow you correctly....

 

I think Ford is slowly getting the 10 speed working properly. But it sure as heck is not what I consider decent at this point in time. With the experience they are learning with the 10 speed/F150 I bet most of the issues are gone by the second year the SD has it. But until then I would steer clear of it.

 

We have a dual clutch DSG in our Audi and it is lightning quick.

 

The dual clutch transmissions do shift much quicker than normal clutch to clutch auto's, but "old school autos can still be tuned to shift faster than clutch to clutch designs (because one clutch has to fully release before the next one applies on clutch to clutch designs, we are talking milliseconds though). You can definitely feel the transmission pass thru neutral on a 6r140as it upshifts. You cant' on a Dual clutch (like a DSG or DCT).

I also have a VW DSG and its lightning quick (flat out impressive how quick the shifts are)

 

I drove an 18 Expeditiom and an 18 Navigator for over a week each and both of them were flawless with the 10 speed. Both my wife and I were extremely impressed with how they perforned.

Majority of the shifting you could never feel and had to watch the dash to know it was shifting.

 

My not be apples to apples, but I drove a new mustang GT with the 10 speed & thought it would be stupid to have so may gears in a gas motor with such a broad power band, but I actually thought it was great after a little practice with it. Only thing I didn't like was the difference between normal and sport mode. Normal was a little too economy programmed for me, but sport held gears way too long for street use. They really need 3 shift profiles to take advantage if it. Call the current normal "economy", give a more aggressive program for most of us and call it "sport," and call the current "sport" a "track" mode.

 

I was hot for the 10 speed when I was considering a F150, thought it made sense. Decided on a F250 and am very pleased with the 6.2 and 6 speed. I really like the "Tow Haul" mode. I drove a "Big" truck all my life and the trend was less gears, more tuned with motor and axle to get power and fuel economy. Not so hot for one now.