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Here's to kicking a dead horse...351w build questions

  #1  
Old 12-05-2018, 09:52 PM
94longbedd
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Here's to kicking a dead horse...351w build questions

Hello everyone! I have been lurking for months and finally joined up today, looking forward to learning even more than I have in the short time I have been reading!


I have read a lot of build threads but have had trouble finding
one that's specific to my setup and goals. The truck (single cab long bed 2WD) is MAF and EFI. I will be getting linked lifters for a roller cam. I do plan on upgrading fuel system, pumps, lines, injectors.

I'm wanting to get close to 350-400hp at the wheels N/A out of this engine and needing some guidance on the next things I need to buy. Wanting to keep it street friendly as possible. Pump gas for sure even if its premium. I do not want to go with a stroker either. I'm planning on spinning it around 5,700-6,000

So far I have:
block freshly machined.040 over
fresh stock rods with ARP hardware
polished stock crank
AFR 185's with 72cc

Needing advice on:
pistons
cam (prefer a retro kit)
intake (thinking trickflow?)

Not trying to come off rude, just trying to get most questions I see asked on build threads answered and out of the way to help get the best advice and recommendations.
 
  #2  
Old 12-06-2018, 08:50 AM
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400whp is going to be very difficult under 6000 rpm with stock cubes, my suggestion is a stroker....even though you said you don't want to stroke it.

Compression ~10.5:1 on 93 octane will be a must.

Head choice is good, you'll need a cam 220/220 + duration....but what you intend to do with the truck is the real ticket to a cam recommendation.
 
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Old 12-06-2018, 10:22 AM
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The main reason I'm against stroking is because I know they can be unreliable and start using oil. I would like to just build this once and let it run another 100,000 miles or more.

would a stock crank and rods be safe to run up past 6,000RPM?
 
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Old 12-06-2018, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by 94longbedd View Post
one that's specific to my setup and goals. The truck (single cab long bed 2WD) is MAF and EFI. I will be getting linked lifters for a roller cam.
The motor in there now has a roller cam in it... unless you're not using it for the rebuild?

Originally Posted by 94longbedd View Post
I do plan on upgrading fuel system, pumps, lines, injectors.
Add a larger MAF and a tuner to that list.

Originally Posted by 94longbedd View Post
I'm wanting to get close to 350-400hp at the wheels N/A out of this engine and needing some guidance on the next things I need to buy. Wanting to keep it street friendly as possible. Pump gas for sure even if its premium. I do not want to go with a stroker either. I'm planning on spinning it around 5,700-6,000
What transmission? It could absorb as much as 75-100hp which means the motor must be in the 500hp territory. Making that much power street friendly in a pickup is a bit of an unrealistic goal.

Originally Posted by 94longbedd View Post
So far I have:
block freshly machined.040 over
fresh stock rods with ARP hardware
polished stock crank
AFR 185's with 72cc
Nice heads but those chambers are way too big, you need compression to have any hope of making your goals so drop that to 58cc. Cranks and rods also need to be forged as this will be a spooler.

Originally Posted by 94longbedd View Post
Needing advice on:
pistons
cam (prefer a retro kit)
No... you need a full base circle cam which means you need to start with a roller block.
Originally Posted by 94longbedd View Post
intake (thinking trickflow?)
Good choice there.



 
  #5  
Old 12-06-2018, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Conanski View Post
The motor in there now has a roller cam in it... unless you're not using it for the rebuild?

Add a larger MAF and a tuner to that list.

What transmission? It could absorb as much as 75-100hp which means the motor must be in the 500hp territory. Making that much power street friendly in a pickup is a bit of an unrealistic goal.

Nice heads but those chambers are way too big, you need compression to have any hope of making your goals so drop that to 58cc. Cranks and rods also need to be forged as this will be a spooler.

No... you need a full base circle cam which means you need to start with a roller block.
Good choice there.
The motor in it now is a 302 and when I started the build I wasn't in a position to pull the motor as the truck was my only vehicle.

I have a tuner already waiting on me to get it together he is very familiar with Ford efi and well known in the sbf & mustang crowd around here.

transmission is a e40d

As far as the heads I already have them with that chamber so I was hoping in being able to select a piston to get the compression right?

This is my first build and still have a lot to learn. I didn't want to order the next parts without seeking advice. So if I lower my expectations to 300rwhp would that be a more realistic goal? The primary use of the truck will be to cruise around, go to car meets, and have some fun on Saturday nights.
 
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Old 12-06-2018, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 94longbedd View Post
have some fun on Saturday nights
This pretty much says it all. This build is about fun and acting stupid. Why pretend otherwise?

Your chamber size is better suited for a stroker. With a stroker you can grow your engine to fit those heads. With aluminum heads, if quench is set up right, you can run higher static compression with lower octane and less detonation. With a roller cam, and expert cam choice, you can cut your dynamic compression at low rpm to control detonation at lower octane.

If you are going to run 100K miles, lower octane will pay for everything. Sell your rotating assembly, and block, and get a stroker. Start with a roller block if you don't have one. Most people won't spring for the heads. Build the engine for the heads.

You didn't say anything about headers, get headers.

You won't destroy anything unless you can't control the stupidity.

Death is too good for street-racers.
 
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Old 12-06-2018, 12:11 PM
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With quality parts and build, you have nothing to worry about with a stroker. A 393 or 408 is not a wild setup, with the latter being a 4 inch crank to match the 4 inch bore of a 351.
 
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Old 12-06-2018, 04:15 PM
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Something to think about...
400 crank HP from a 351 stroker is regular octane fuel territory.. maybe 9.5:1 compression and it won't require a forged rotating assembly so one of the cheap cast iron stroker kits is all you need. Have a look at this dyno sim..
 
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Old 12-06-2018, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Conanski View Post
Something to think about...
400 crank HP from a 351 stroker is regular octane fuel territory.. maybe 9.5:1 compression and it won't require a forged rotating assembly so one of the cheap cast iron stroker kits is all you need. Have a look at this dyno sim..
So I'm leaning more towards a 393 now, due to the fact that I could at least use the rods I have. I have already had them freshens up and ARP hardware installed, so would like to use them, the crank was polished but it wasn't too much money so I wouldn't be mad about not using it. What kind of numbers could I expect with a 393W and my heads? Also, would I just get 302 stock replacement pistons that fit my bore?
 
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Old 12-06-2018, 08:01 PM
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https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...view/make/ford

1300ish before tax and shipping. 408 stroker will be about 10.5 to 1 with your huge chamber heads. Then a decent cam and tune, and you're killing tires all day.
 
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Old 12-06-2018, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Mudsport96 View Post
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...view/make/ford

1300ish before tax and shipping. 408 stroker will be about 10.5 to 1 with your huge chamber heads. Then a decent cam and tune, and you're killing tires all day.
The bore is 4.030 on this kit, will this work for me? My block had to go .040 over, I guess it was in bad shape.
 
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Old 12-06-2018, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 94longbedd View Post
The bore is 4.030 on this kit, will this work for me? My block had to go .040 over, I guess it was in bad shape.
I'd call summit and see if they have a .040 over kit. Or can suggest one.
 
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:24 AM
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Looks like this place Carrie's stuff too

https://www.cnc-motorsports.com/scat...ons-56020.html
 
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Old 12-07-2018, 05:41 AM
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Also, most stroker kits come with forged pistons and a cast crank...perfect for high compression low rpm engines such as the one you'd like to.build. A compression of 10.5:1 with a 393 or 408 would be a very fun driver with the 185s and a 6000 rpm redline. 350whp would be easily achievable, with more than comfortable driving manners and tire shredding torque. Cam should still be 225ish +/- a few degrees in duration, wide lsa 112+, .550 lift minimum to work well with your rpm goal. Don't be afraid to use a conservative cam either, the risk of going too far is much greater than going too small in this instance, it will be a runner no matter what with the head and bottom end combo.

You will need to work with a supplier to provide appropriate piston for compression ratio if you want to use your heads. I haven't done much combustion chamber work on any set of afr's, as they are quality pieces already designed with attention to detail, but if there are cnc ridges or valve shrouding of any kind....now is the time to sand the ridges and polish the chambers, chamfer the combustion chamber edges, then measure the combustion chamber before selecting piston. If they've been milled at any point, chances are you will need to get rid of the sharp corner at the edge of the combustion chamber at the very least. I'm not a fan of dome pistons at all, if you can't achieve 10.5:1 With flat tops, i would mill .030 off the heads, measure combustion chamber, and recalculate compression using flat tops or small dish.
 


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