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Injectors submerged in water

  #16  
Old 11-21-2018, 10:13 AM
alloro
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Originally Posted by ddan View Post
It really seems like a fuel delivery problem.
You can test that by giving it short blasts of starting fluid to see if the RPMs jump each time you spray.
 
  #17  
Old 11-21-2018, 10:22 AM
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yes, but blasts are not that informative. I wish my propane torch would put out enough. Propane is way cheaper than ether and I could probably make it run smooth.
 
  #18  
Old 11-21-2018, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ddan View Post
yes, but blasts are not that informative.
If the engine reacts to the starting fluid blasts then yes you're being told something is wrong with the fuel delivery.
 
  #19  
Old 11-21-2018, 12:07 PM
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I thought I'd give the propane a head start so left it wide open in the intake for half a minute before starting it. It started, but ran out of gas immediately.

Beware of United Automotive ignition parts! My new cap wrecked my new rotor. This cap design has a skinny center contact that comes way out with the cap off and can get cocked in its little bore so that it doesn't retract. This bends the rotor contact way down and in my case cracked the rotor where the contact attaches. They were cheap. Ya' get what ya' pay for.

I discovered this when I was rechecking the alignment. I made a tool out of an old cap. (I should have made it out of the POS new one.) I cut the top off the no. 1 post and pressed the brass out. Then I drilled a 5/8" inspection window from the side. I fed a drill bit butt first down to the rotor. Wow! I couldn't have gotten it any closer! All I used before was a fat marker mark on the dist. body.
 
  #20  
Old 11-22-2018, 11:39 AM
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I downloaded the old version of Winscope and verified that I have a tach signal.

I capped the PCV (the mouth of it), the HVAC control, and the regulator control. I completely choked it with my hand and it still ran for a bit and low vacuum: less than 5 mg.
It seems like exhaust restriction or bad valve timing. It is on its 2nd timing chain. I replaced the original a dozen years ago.
I think I'll check valve timing with compressed air into the no. 1 spark hole. I know the intake valve is open 360 from the spark, but I need to measure when it starts to open.
 
  #21  
Old 12-28-2018, 02:25 PM
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With a compression test I'm getting 150psi with less than 5psi variation between all cylinders so my valve timing seems good.
 
  #22  
Old 12-28-2018, 02:26 PM
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OK, I've been off the case for awhile dealing with other stuff.

Taking a fresh look I've found that I don't have to worry about injector sequencing or a vacuum leak.

There is no injector "sequence" with this engine. Look at the engine control wiring diagram and you will see that the 1, 2, 3 injectors are connected in parallel and the 4, 5, 6 are in parallel at both the positive and negative terminals. The computer fires them 3 at a time. You could connect them in any order you want (if the harness could reach) and get the same result. (The camshaft controls the fuel sequence just like a single injector system.)

A vacuum leak has a very different effect on this MAP controlled engine than it would on an old carbureted engine. The old sensorless engines will stumble or not run at all if the carb isn't bolted down tight. Meanwhile, if you have a computer monitoring manifold air pressure and increasing fuel delivery to match increased air in the manifold you will just see a high idle with a leak.

I seem to have a fuel delivery (lean) problem despite: having correct and stable fuel pressure; injectors that all shoot a fine stream (I tested them with a spare pump and filter. You don't want to pump anything unfiltered into an injector. I even used new hose between the filter and injector.); an injector harness that is live on both sides (I connected a 12V test light to the 1, 2, and 6 injector connectors and watched it blink while cranking the engine.); and a fresh, clean fuel source. (I dropped the tank, dried, cleaned it out and bought 6 gal. of fresh gas. I even purged the lines before connecting the return to the tank.)

A bad MAP would cause problems. I believe I mentioned testing it before. When the weather/engine is warm it will stumble along long enough to let me get out of the driver seat and try some things. One of those things was disconnecting the MAP which caused an RPM increase. I would think a failing MAP would be less sensitive to vacuum, not more. A failing MAP would then result in a rich mixture until the adaptive strategy compensated. I could be wrong, but I'm loathe to use trial and error replacement with such a pricey part. I could buy new plugs and plug wires for less!

I tried resetting the computer. Maybe I should try again. The computer might be increasing the fuel when it senses more oxygen, but not increasing enough due to a persistent adaptive strategy.
 
  #23  
Old 01-03-2019, 01:39 PM
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It just dawned on me that my original concern (injectors submerged) was completely unfounded. Both ends of the injectors were always sealed from water. Only the outside case and terminals were bathed. The case is designed for wet environments.

I thought that I had the business end under water. Silly me!
 
  #24  
Old 01-03-2019, 08:01 PM
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As long as you didn't get water into the fuel rails, the injectors should be fine.
 
  #25  
Old 01-04-2019, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ddan View Post
It just dawned on me that my original concern (injectors submerged) was completely unfounded. Both ends of the injectors were always sealed from water. Only the outside case and terminals were bathed. The case is designed for wet environments.
Ahem, cough, cough....
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post18317154
 


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