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Gas/Diesel/Travel Trailer/5th Wheel - Need advice!

  #1  
Old 11-14-2018, 09:14 PM
JimmyRocket
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Gas/Diesel/Travel Trailer/5th Wheel - Need advice!

Hi everyone. Sorry if this isnt in the correct forum, but my questions spread across several of them so I have landed here. A little background: I currently own a 2017 F150 Platunium. I have had it for about 18 months and only have 9,500 miles on it. I have a 7x16 enclosed trailer with 2 quads that I currently pull.

Recently my gf and I have been interested in purchasing a toy hauler. We really want the Grand Design Momentum 320G 5th wheel. It has a dry weight of 12,400 and a gross weight of 16,800 (which we expect to come extremely close to) and a hitch weight of 2,475.

We were planning on trading in the F150 and upgrading to a F350 PS Platinum to accommodate this massive coach, but I have serious concerns that we won’t be within the towing capacity/weight limits of an F350. From everything I have researched, everyone says to go with an F450 DRW however I’d rather not go that route since this will also be my daily driver.

Another concern is, since this will be my daily driver, and since my daily commute is only 3 miles to work (about 15 min) and 3 miles back (about 20 min) I assume this is very hard on a diesel.

Here are are my questions:
1) Is there a “proper equipped” F350 PS Platinum that is able to pull this toy hauler within capacity?
2) Am I going to trash a new diesel by only driving it 6 miles per day? I do plan on towing the trailer 15-20 times per year and I can obviously add some miles to the truck on weekends.
3) is a long bed necessary or am I fine with an auto-slide hitch and the smaller bed?

If what I want is just not possible, Plan B is to still trade the truck in and get a lighter travel trailer with a dry weight of 8,300 pounds, a gross weight of 1,200 pounds and a hitch weight of 1,300 pounds.

I would still love to get the diesel, but still concerned about my short commute to work and prematurely introducing issues to the emissions system. Am I better off getting a gasser?

Besides getting a DRW and also a long bed, I would like to get the best towing vehicle possible.

Thank you in advance! Sorry for the long post. I am a newbie to 5th Wheels and Diesels and Super Duty’s in general.
 
  #2  
Old 11-14-2018, 10:49 PM
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To answer # 3 ( 3) is a long bed necessary or am I fine with an auto-slide hitch and the smaller bed? )
I have a 6 3/4' ( short bed ), with a non-slider, and works fine with our Artic Fox 5ver - which has a recessed cap, I checked several forums, and most said they did'nt need a slider. Also - I have a BW hitch, which has several inches of forward/reverse adjustment, that helps also.
 
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Old 11-14-2018, 11:00 PM
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I never trust the given weights provided by a trailer manufacturer so go to the scales before you buy. Same for your new truck, weight the truck wet before you buy. I count on 17% of gross weight will be the pin weight. Remember tools, kids, pets and fire wood.

The 18 F350 SRW will tow the 5th wheel you describe with about #200 - #300 to spare. My present 5th wheel trailer is simular to the situation you describe so I know it well. With full tanks I can easily exceed the trucks 11,500 GVWR. We are close to the GVWR all the time. The motor is more than capable and you can easily tow at any speed you choose. Mileage is 8mpg if like to go fast. The Ram 3500 SRW has 12,300 GVWR provides more room to grow unfortunately the straight 6 doesn’t pull like a Powerstroke. Ford should offer a heavier SRW truck to compete with Ram. Why be forced into a dually if you don’t want to own one?

If you love the motor an F450 is great choice because the F350 SRW is on the light side when looking at 5th wheels. Trailer Manufacturers have porked out in these last few years so a dually is a safe choice.
 
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Old 11-14-2018, 11:05 PM
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If, as you say, you will load the heck out of it--hitch/pin weight could approach 3400lbs. Generally, pin weights on fivers is around 20% of running weight up to gross weight. THs are supposedly very hitch heavy when not loaded, so think about towing near empty. Since you are thinking possible slider, then you are looking at SRW short beds? In that case, the real serious load concern will be the load ratings of the rear tires, which is going to be around 7500lbs...
 
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Old 11-14-2018, 11:09 PM
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The payload on that truck in SRW/SWB form will be around 3200#. If your advertised pin weight is 2475# then you are going to be real close if not over when you are loaded for camping. The truck will tow it just fine though and a lot of guys have installed airbags on the SRW trucks to keep the truck level. You are probably in dually territory from a legalistic standpoint with that camper.
 
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Old 11-14-2018, 11:23 PM
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F-350 4x4 Diesel CC SRW Platinum will likely have a payload around 3200lbs for a Short box and 3100lbs for a Long box..That's about the heaviest SRW you can get, so it has the least payload. The Gasser, while MUCH lighter and having more payload, will not have the grunt to tow that weight - the GCWR and towing capacity of those models is much lower then the diesel. frankly, it would be a pretty miserable tow in my opinion anyway. Good choice for a lighter travel trailer though.

Always plan for GVWR on the trailer, and 20% on the pin. So with a GVWR of 16800lbs, your pin weight is likely about 3300lbs = So, fully loaded you will be over specs on a F-350 Diesel SRW unfortunately - absolutely over the Truck GVWR and likely very close on the RAWR. And that's without any passengers and an empty bed. Certainly no aux tank, doesn't even include the weight of the hitch....

We tow a 16,000lb GVWR trailer and I am over GVWR by a couple of hundred lbs on our XLT, which is MUCH lighter then a platinum (3702lbs of payload on the sticker).

So, keep it under 16000 lbs if you want a SRW (and thats pushing it, 15000lbs is better) anything over that you really need a DRW. Or go take a look at RAM 3500 with the Cummins/Aisin Combo, which has significantly higher payload capacities then Ford's do (12300lbs GVWR rating for a SRW vs the F-350 11500lbs)..

Or decide to push your luck because you want that trailer and a SRW - that's what many do...the choice is yours The truck will do the job and not complain about it.....The trick is never exceed the RAWR under any condition - because then you get into the limits of the tires...
 
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Old 11-15-2018, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by mrgrayaz View Post
F-350 4x4 Diesel CC SRW Platinum will likely have a payload around 3200lbs for a Short box and 3100lbs for a Long box..That's about the heaviest SRW you can get, so it has the least payload. The Gasser, while MUCH lighter and having more payload, will not have the grunt to tow that weight - the GCWR and towing capacity of those models is much lower then the diesel. frankly, it would be a pretty miserable tow in my opinion anyway. Good choice for a lighter travel trailer though.

Always plan for GVWR on the trailer, and 20% on the pin. So with a GVWR of 16800lbs, your pin weight is likely about 3300lbs = So, fully loaded you will be over specs on a F-350 Diesel SRW unfortunately - absolutely over the Truck GVWR and likely very close on the RAWR. And that's without any passengers and an empty bed. Certainly no aux tank, doesn't even include the weight of the hitch....

We tow a 16,000lb GVWR trailer and I am over GVWR by a couple of hundred lbs on our XLT, which is MUCH lighter then a platinum (3702lbs of payload on the sticker).

So, keep it under 16000 lbs if you want a SRW (and thats pushing it, 15000lbs is better) anything over that you really need a DRW. Or go take a look at RAM 3500 with the Cummins/Aisin Combo, which has significantly higher payload capacities then Ford's do (12300lbs GVWR rating for a SRW vs the F-350 11500lbs)..

Or decide to push your luck because you want that trailer and a SRW - that's what many do...the choice is yours The truck will do the job and not complain about it.....The trick is never exceed the RAWR under any condition - because then you get into the limits of the tires...
This is well stated advice. In the real world of towing I would not be comfortable going with a trailer over 15K pounds with that truck.
In the real world of towing most of us carry more extra weight than we realize.
 
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Old 11-15-2018, 11:24 AM
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Just a thought, don't know if you've looked at them already or not, but have you considered an aluminum trailer? ATC and Sundowner both make a 5th wheel toy hauler that's quite a bit lighter. ATC lists thier 40' model at 10K with a 21.6K GVWR (massive payload). I'm sure they are a bit pricier than the conventional but the Grand Designs aren't the cheapest either. They both make high quality trailers.
 
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Old 11-15-2018, 12:14 PM
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First, I just want to thank each of you for giving your input. I truly valve everyone’s comments. So thank you.

I absolutely don’t want to take any risk in pulling anything that’s going to exceed any weight limits. Plus I don’t want an extremely white knuckled stressful drive every time we take it out.

Sounds like if I really want that specific 5th wheel toy hauler, then I really need to open my options to a DRW (which I’m open to, but not excited about). I will do some research on the ATC 5th Wheels and see if we like them - good suggestion BowtieConvert.

Let me get back to the diesel question. Am I going to destroy a brand new truck by only driving it 10 miles per day Mon-Fri? I’m positive this won’t bring the truck up to normal operating tempatures and I may (or may not) have issues with regens not being able to perform as expected.

Or or am I better off downsizing to a lighter travel trailer and getting a 250 or 350 gasser?

Or just wait wait for the 2020’s and see if by chance the specs on those are better than what’s currently available?
 
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Old 11-15-2018, 12:45 PM
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Jimmy...congrats on doing your homework before buying anything. About 4 yrs ago we bought a Fuzion 371 39' and 3050 pin weight with the 5500 Onan generator in the front. We used my son in laws F250 SWB to tow it with. I asked the dealer if that was enough truck to tow it with and they said they do it all the time...should have know better. After tapping the rear of the cab in a tight uphill turn we put a sidewinder pin box to eliminate the turning problem. Sagging rear had us putting air bags to level the rear but no increase in payload. Before tearing up the truck or blowing a rear tire while towing I bit the bullet and bought a '17 F350 DRW and what a difference. Found out these toyhaulers are heavy in the front when you are not loading any toys in the garage area to counterweight the front. Don't know if you plan on a factory generator in the front but I liked having one then not even adding the extra weight. I use my dually for daily driving and just have to plan in advance to where I park. I take short and long trips and no problems with any engine problems doing this. I always let it warm up about 5 minutes when engine is cold to get everything circulating. Wife got tired of the toyhauler because of the lack of living area so we traded it in this past March on a 377MBS GD Solitude. I do miss the extra 1/2 bath and the factory generator with the gas tanks that the Fuzion had in the rear.


Fuzion 371 we had.

377 MBS Solitude we bought in March '18.
 
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Old 11-15-2018, 12:45 PM
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I don't know anything about diesels but even on a gas engine going just a few miles every day and not letting the oil get hot to get rid of moisture isn't good. I live a mile from my mailbox and don't do the 2 mile drive in my car to pick up the mail if I can help it. I just ride a bike most days. I would just get a cheap beater car/truck if I had to drive a couple miles to work every day. JMHO
 
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Old 11-15-2018, 02:05 PM
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Gas saver...

Originally Posted by afret View Post
I don't know anything about diesels but even on a gas engine going just a few miles every day and not letting the oil get hot to get rid of moisture isn't good. I live a mile from my mailbox and don't do the 2 mile drive in my car to pick up the mail if I can help it. I just ride a bike most days. I would just get a cheap beater car/truck if I had to drive a couple miles to work every day. JMHO
I used to have a similar situation as the OP. I just picked up a 95 GEO prism 4 dr 5-speed for 600 bucks. I put cheop Walmart tires and brakes and a clutch in it, all in for 1400$. After almost a year of driving I have kept miles off the 450 and I know for a fact I have made back my 1400 just in fuel savings. I second the idea of a beater work car and getting the correct tool for the job for the camping situation.
 
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Old 11-15-2018, 02:39 PM
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To answer your diesel short drive question. You will need to take it on the highway, get it up to temp and go through a regen every now and then.
Second, I just sent you a private message you should see.
 
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Old 11-15-2018, 03:10 PM
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If your commute is only 3 miles, why are you worried about daily driving a dually? I daily drive my F450 27 miles each way in heavy beltway traffic every day and park in a parking garage without issue. The F450 is easier to park than a SRW long bed and compatible to a SRW short bed.

Use Forscan to enable manual regen or delete to deal with the short trip regen issue.
 
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Old 11-15-2018, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by JimmyRocket View Post
Hi everyone. Sorry if this isnt in the correct forum, but my questions spread across several of them so I have landed here. A little background: I currently own a 2017 F150 Platunium. I have had it for about 18 months and only have 9,500 miles on it. I have a 7x16 enclosed trailer with 2 quads that I currently pull.

Recently my gf and I have been interested in purchasing a toy hauler. We really want the Grand Design Momentum 320G 5th wheel. It has a dry weight of 12,400 and a gross weight of 16,800 (which we expect to come extremely close to) and a hitch weight of 2,475.

We were planning on trading in the F150 and upgrading to a F350 PS Platinum to accommodate this massive coach, but I have serious concerns that we won’t be within the towing capacity/weight limits of an F350. From everything I have researched, everyone says to go with an F450 DRW however I’d rather not go that route since this will also be my daily driver.

Another concern is, since this will be my daily driver, and since my daily commute is only 3 miles to work (about 15 min) and 3 miles back (about 20 min) I assume this is very hard on a diesel.

Here are are my questions:
1) Is there a “proper equipped” F350 PS Platinum that is able to pull this toy hauler within capacity?
2) Am I going to trash a new diesel by only driving it 6 miles per day? I do plan on towing the trailer 15-20 times per year and I can obviously add some miles to the truck on weekends.
3) is a long bed necessary or am I fine with an auto-slide hitch and the smaller bed?

If what I want is just not possible, Plan B is to still trade the truck in and get a lighter travel trailer with a dry weight of 8,300 pounds, a gross weight of 1,200 pounds and a hitch weight of 1,300 pounds.

I would still love to get the diesel, but still concerned about my short commute to work and prematurely introducing issues to the emissions system. Am I better off getting a gasser?

Besides getting a DRW and also a long bed, I would like to get the best towing vehicle possible.

Thank you in advance! Sorry for the long post. I am a newbie to 5th Wheels and Diesels and Super Duty’s in general.
You might want to ask yourself......how far are you towing this trailer 15-20 times per year. If it is just out to the lake/ play [email protected] 100-150 miles or less, for the weekend, over relatively flat terrain, etc. the 6.2 gas engine with what ever gear ratio will do fine. This will give you a lot more usable payload. The 350 gas has the same tires, brakes, transmission and whatever else the diesel has. Yes, it will downshift more than the diesel.....maybe even be a little slower on the hills, be a little slower getting up the on ramps, etc. But, overall it will do just fine.
The only thing is, if you think a gas powered dually; you will very likely have to order that.
When I had my SRW 6.2 gasser with 3.73 gears, I was happy pulling my Raptor locally; but when I started playing snowbird and pulling it 1500 miles each way thru all the Rocky Mountain states I started looking seriously for a dually and the only ones I found on dealer lots were all diesels, so now I have a diesel dually, and no longer play snowbird but still make longer trips occasionally
 

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