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HP fuel pump bites the dust

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HP fuel pump bites the dust

  #1  
Old 10-22-2018, 09:21 PM
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HP fuel pump bites the dust

Have a customer with a 2012 F350 6.7 212,000 miles. Truck was towed in with a crank no start. It said "Engine power reduced" and he drove another 6 or 8 blocks and then shut it off. It wouldn't restart. He had another mechanic change the fuel filters but that didn't help any. It had a P0087 and P2291. I tested the low pressure side and it was good. Pulled the volume control valve on top of the pump and found lots of metal shavings. He's not very happy and I don't blame him. It's the second one that's had this problem in our area. Both 2012s. I pulled a fuel sample just to get a visual and it looked great. I sure wouldn't wish this on anyone. Just wanted to post for information purposes.





 
  #2  
Old 10-22-2018, 10:40 PM
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Thank you for posting this. I don't think I've seen pictures of this issue. It is certainly an expensive repair.
 
  #3  
Old 10-22-2018, 11:10 PM
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He has 212k and continued to drive after the message. He really can't be made about the repair. Pay up and move forward, good news is the fuel refresh kits from ford are down to 4100k and he is going to need it because those injectors are equally as trashed.
 
  #4  
Old 10-23-2018, 01:58 PM
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On a situation like this I don't think you can stop quick enough to avoid the damage. By the time the reduced engine power light comes on it's toast. I try and explain to my customers that fuel additive is important and this is one of the reasons that I believe it is so important. A little added lubricity is like insurance. Makes me wonder if a person should consider replacing the pump at 150k just for preventive maintenance. They are not bad to replace. Just my $.02
 
  #5  
Old 10-23-2018, 03:45 PM
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I started PM-22 with the hopes of preventing this from happening.
 
  #6  
Old 10-23-2018, 08:08 PM
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Plus, "reduced engine power" isn't very informative. We know what this can mean but I am guessing we're a low percentage of owners. If it gives me this at 75 MPH on the interstate, I'm making it to an exit or other safe spot if I can so I can reduce the chance of death. The situation will steer my decision.
 
  #7  
Old 10-31-2018, 10:35 AM
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ditto on adding a lube additive or running at least b5 which has better lube value than any of the popular lube add in's.

aslo need anti gel during the colder months to prevent fuel starvation and dry running fuel pump.

 
  #8  
Old 11-01-2018, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by willydmax View Post
On a situation like this I don't think you can stop quick enough to avoid the damage. By the time the reduced engine power light comes on it's toast. I try and explain to my customers that fuel additive is important and this is one of the reasons that I believe it is so important. A little added lubricity is like insurance. Makes me wonder if a person should consider replacing the pump at 150k just for preventive maintenance. They are not bad to replace. Just my $.02
Thanks for posting up. What do you think of these kits? I know the pump will still go, but will this help prevent taking out the injectors?

Also, you have responded in that thread I started about additives and I got trashed about mine. Still using it every tank and going strong with over 33k miles. Always appreciate your input with your time behind the wrenches.
 
  #9  
Old 11-01-2018, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Overkill2 View Post
Thanks for posting up. What do you think of these kits? I know the pump will still go, but will this help prevent taking out the injectors?
I wonder why Ford didn't incorporate that idea into the design, it would be simple to do with even less parts than the kit contains.

 
  #10  
Old 11-01-2018, 08:17 PM
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Is this a really common issue. Makes me a little nervous.
 
  #11  
Old 11-01-2018, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by fordboy2 View Post
Is this a really common issue. Makes me a little nervous.
This has been happening since the 6.4,Itís nothing new.It also happens to the Duramax boys as they use the same HPFP.

I have a 17 6.7 and donít use any additives and Iím not worried about it.My take on it is, if itís gonna happen, itsís gonna happen.
 
  #12  
Old 11-02-2018, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by lynnmor View Post
I wonder why Ford didn't incorporate that idea into the design, it would be simple to do with even less parts than the kit contains.
That kit and kits like them only protect you from metal shavings that come from the crankcase of the pump ( bearings/lifters/cam).

These kits don't protect you from failures of the plungers and barrels that actually pump the fuel. Most fuel system failures that wipe the system out occur from here.
 
  #13  
Old 11-02-2018, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by UGA33 View Post


That kit and kits like them only protect you from metal shavings that come from the crankcase of the pump ( bearings/lifters/cam).

These kits don't protect you from failures of the plungers and barrels that actually pump the fuel. Most fuel system failures that wipe the system out occur from here.
So you're saying that these guys selling these are using false advertising then?

Isn't the whole reason for putting that on is to reroute it back to the tank so it goes there instead of through the injectors? I'm not being a wise guy, just trying to get more informed.


**"To be clear, this kit will not prevent the CP4 injection pump from failing, but what it will do is prevent failure of the rest of the fuel system in the event that it does fail. When the CP4 fails, metal particles from the fractured pump are forced to be sent throughout all secondary parts of the fuel system to include the fuel rails and injectors, most notably the injectors. These fragments will lodge themselves into the injectors and inevitably destroy them, and quite honestly, they're expensive. What the Disaster Prevention Kit does is reroute the direction of fuel that is responsible for lubricating the rotating assembly back through the factory fuel filters. Because of this, in the event the pump does fail, the contaminated fuel will be forced through both filters, which will capture these particles, inevitably saving your injectors."



**"The 6.7L Powerstroke uses a CP4 that has a high failure rate &, when it fails, sends metal debris through the high pressure fuel system. Prior to failing, there are no warning signs; it just happens. And it can happen at any time! When this happens, the ENTIRE high pressure fuel system needs to be replaced, costing upwards of $10,000!

The CP4 cannot be replaced with a more reliable CP3, so the only option is to reroute the fuel. This kit reroutes the fuel (and potential debris) back to the fuel tank so that all of the fuel entering AND leaving the CP4 goes through the fuel filters to catch any debris before heading off to the rest of the high pressure fuel system.


This kit is great insurance against a common disaster and can save you THOUSANDS!"



**6.7L Ford Powerstroke
CARB APPROVED


"Disaster Prevention Kit"

( CP4 Bypass Kit )

As many 6.7L Powerstroke owners have become painfully aware, the high pressure fuel pump (also known as a CP4 pump) has a design weakness. When the CP4 pump fails, it will shed tiny particles of metal throughout the entire high pressure fuel system. The only cure in this case is to replace everything in the high pressure fuel system - CP4 pump, fuel injectors, injection lines, fuel rails, etc. We hear from our customers that the total cost of this repair with labor can be in the $9,000 range.

THE CURE

The CP4 disaster prevention kit cannot prevent the CP4 pump from failing. What it does do is prevent the contamination from the failure from entering the high pressure fuel system.

HOW IT WORKS

The CP4 pump is internally lubricated by diesel fuel from the tank. After lubricating the crankcase area of the CP4 pump, fuel enters the high pressure pumping chambers and exits under pressure to the fuel rails and fuel injectors. The weakness of the CP4 pump lies in the crankcase area where a set of roller lifters ride on a camshaft. When the failure event occurs the lubricating fuel becomes contaminated immediately. Our bypass kit mounts to the CP4 pump and changes the routing of the fuel flow so that lubricating fuel from the crankcase is directed back to the fuel tank to be filtered before going through the fuel system again. Thus all fuel entering the pumping elements of the CP4 pump and leaving for the injectors is always routed through both of the vehicle's fuel filters to eliminate any chance of contamination from a high pressure pump failure.

This one-time investment of $359 could easily save over $9,000 in repairs and weeks of downtime. It is an absolute must for any 6.7L Powerstroke owner!


CARB COMPLAINT


Every kit now comes with a CARB compliant decal making this modification 100% street legal in all 50 States for 2011 - 2016 model year trucks. The kit also fits 2017 year trucks with CARB compliance pending. According to our understanding, Ford's position is that any modification that is CARB compliant will not void the manufacturer's warranty.

CARB EO# D-756-1


MADE IN THE USA






So this is all false and your injectors and lines will still be wasted?? I'm looking for someone who has more knowledge than me about this fuel system and modern diesel engines in general, which is used by other GM also I believe. It would be nice to be able to retro fit a CP3 in our trucks as from what I've read, they are more durable. Just looking for answers, gentlemen. Thanks.
 
  #14  
Old 11-02-2018, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Overkill2 View Post
So you're saying that these guys selling these are using false advertising then?

Isn't the whole reason for putting that on is to reroute it back to the tank so it goes there instead of through the injectors? I'm not being a wise guy, just trying to get more informed.


**"To be clear, this kit will not prevent the CP4 injection pump from failing, but what it will do is prevent failure of the rest of the fuel system in the event that it does fail. When the CP4 fails, metal particles from the fractured pump are forced to be sent throughout all secondary parts of the fuel system to include the fuel rails and injectors, most notably the injectors. These fragments will lodge themselves into the injectors and inevitably destroy them, and quite honestly, they're expensive. What the Disaster Prevention Kit does is reroute the direction of fuel that is responsible for lubricating the rotating assembly back through the factory fuel filters. Because of this, in the event the pump does fail, the contaminated fuel will be forced through both filters, which will capture these particles, inevitably saving your injectors."



**"The 6.7L Powerstroke uses a CP4 that has a high failure rate &, when it fails, sends metal debris through the high pressure fuel system. Prior to failing, there are no warning signs; it just happens. And it can happen at any time! When this happens, the ENTIRE high pressure fuel system needs to be replaced, costing upwards of $10,000!

The CP4 cannot be replaced with a more reliable CP3, so the only option is to reroute the fuel. This kit reroutes the fuel (and potential debris) back to the fuel tank so that all of the fuel entering AND leaving the CP4 goes through the fuel filters to catch any debris before heading off to the rest of the high pressure fuel system.


This kit is great insurance against a common disaster and can save you THOUSANDS!"



**6.7L Ford Powerstroke
CARB APPROVED


"Disaster Prevention Kit"

( CP4 Bypass Kit )

As many 6.7L Powerstroke owners have become painfully aware, the high pressure fuel pump (also known as a CP4 pump) has a design weakness. When the CP4 pump fails, it will shed tiny particles of metal throughout the entire high pressure fuel system. The only cure in this case is to replace everything in the high pressure fuel system - CP4 pump, fuel injectors, injection lines, fuel rails, etc. We hear from our customers that the total cost of this repair with labor can be in the $9,000 range.

THE CURE

The CP4 disaster prevention kit cannot prevent the CP4 pump from failing. What it does do is prevent the contamination from the failure from entering the high pressure fuel system.

HOW IT WORKS

The CP4 pump is internally lubricated by diesel fuel from the tank. After lubricating the crankcase area of the CP4 pump, fuel enters the high pressure pumping chambers and exits under pressure to the fuel rails and fuel injectors. The weakness of the CP4 pump lies in the crankcase area where a set of roller lifters ride on a camshaft. When the failure event occurs the lubricating fuel becomes contaminated immediately. Our bypass kit mounts to the CP4 pump and changes the routing of the fuel flow so that lubricating fuel from the crankcase is directed back to the fuel tank to be filtered before going through the fuel system again. Thus all fuel entering the pumping elements of the CP4 pump and leaving for the injectors is always routed through both of the vehicle's fuel filters to eliminate any chance of contamination from a high pressure pump failure.

This one-time investment of $359 could easily save over $9,000 in repairs and weeks of downtime. It is an absolute must for any 6.7L Powerstroke owner!


CARB COMPLAINT


Every kit now comes with a CARB compliant decal making this modification 100% street legal in all 50 States for 2011 - 2016 model year trucks. The kit also fits 2017 year trucks with CARB compliance pending. According to our understanding, Ford's position is that any modification that is CARB compliant will not void the manufacturer's warranty.

CARB EO# D-756-1


MADE IN THE USA






So this is all false and your injectors and lines will still be wasted?? I'm looking for someone who has more knowledge than me about this fuel system and modern diesel engines in general, which is used by other GM also I believe. It would be nice to be able to retro fit a CP3 in our trucks as from what I've read, they are more durable. Just looking for answers, gentlemen. Thanks.
It's not technically false, it just only sends the pump lubricating fuel back to the tank. The barrel and plungers that pressurize/pump the fuel fail more often than the crankcase parts. The only place the top end of the pump has to send fuel is the line/rail out to your injectors.

So the kit will prevent fuel system failure from metal being sent into the system via the lubricating fuel. It will not protect your system from the plungers and barrels failing.
 
  #15  
Old 11-02-2018, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by UGA33 View Post

The barrel and plungers that pressurize/pump the fuel fail more often than the crankcase parts.
How do you know that? How do they know that? Not being argumentative, just wondering what the real data on this is.

If they are right, and the pump's crankcase is the start of the problem, then within a very few revolutions the top will also be trashed and you won't be able to tell where it started. On the other hand, if I understand the circulation of the fuel, if the fault starts in the top, this is downstream of the bottom end and the bottom will still look good. That means that for trucks in the garage with a trashed CP4, most of them would have a good bottom end but a trashed top end. If accuratediesel is right, most failed CP4 pumps will have both top and bottom trashed. Which is it? In the case of the OP, which was it?
 

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