I luv my SuperDuty vehicles,, think Ford products are just as good as anyone's (except for Cummins engines) and periodically need to purchase vehicles................one area I look at is 5-Year Depreciation rates and I was surprised to learn that recent studies show Ford in last (worst) place--- below. Not good for us owners and probably another reason why Ford's stock is getting crushed. Company is gouging new buyers too -- these thieves make over 50% profit on some F-Series vehicles.................


https://www.iseecars.com/cars-low-hi...ion-2018-study

 

There's another way to look at it... For me, it would be around 28% because I got $10k off my new F-150. Some got $12k off. The cars on top of that list.. you'd be lucky to get $2k off!

My 2012 depreciated only 17% after four years because I got $10k off that one too (MSRP $39k, bought for $29k, traded-in for $24k).

 

Do you think it could be a factor of the shear volume of F-Series vehicles on the road? In some cases, Ford is selling multiple times more vehicles in the segment than the other manufacturers. Simply more used vehicles on the market driving prices down in comparison to the others?

 

 

Are you basing your frustration on your current "2003" F350 or do you have a 2018 F350.
Yes, Ford truck are expensive and so are the GM, Chevy, & RAM trucks. Ford`s stock price has nothing to do with what you mentioned. Can you please explain how Ford is "gouging" new buyers when their prices are right in line with the other makes who compete with them. If any vehicle is the best seller in it`s class, regardless of the brand or make and if people are still buying them, why should the price be cheaper or more to your liking. The market determines what you and I will pay so shouldn`t your complaints be aimed towards the people who are buying these trucks?

I really doubt any automobile manufacturer is making "over 50%" profit on any vehicle but i`d be very interested to know where you got this info from.

No consumer is "forced" to pay the price for any brand of vehicle hence the reason there are options to look at another brand. Example.......iPhone Xs MAX or Samsung Note 9

Have a great day.

 

I own five F-Series trucks, newest is 2017. As for the 50% profit per F-Series, that number comes from a proprietary financial source I subscribe to, but I'll just leave you with an excerpt from a Morgan Stanley research paper authored by Analyst Adam Jonas:

...F-Series, which includes F-150 and Super Duty trucks, is responsible for 90% of the automaker’s total global profits......

Ford, along with RAM and GM are indeed gouging light truck buyers --- baseline profit on the F-Series is $10,000 on a high $30's vehicle per the proprietary data I have (largely done parametrically)---that min 33% plus level rises to 50% and above on premium F-Series sales (e.g. Lariat, King Ranch, Premium, Raptor, etc) which overall account for more than 50% of Ford's F-Series sales.................

It's a huge ripoff given the overall industry profits, per New York Stern School's Financial Database on 18 automakers which shows an average net margin of 2.07% for the sector.

Bottom Line: pickup truck buyers are getting gouged

 

I can clearly see where Ford making the money on high end trucks. There's very little difference in the bones of an F-150 XL Screw 4x4, retail about 35K than the bones of an F-150 Platinum 4x4, retail about 65K or higher. So the options on the Platinum are really worth over $30,000?

There's two ways to combat this issue:
1. Keep the truck longer
2. Stop buying the high end trucks.

 

Trucks live longer anyways.. much longer. Most of the trade-ins we see are not out of necessity. I could have kept my 2012 but I really wanted the 2016's aluminum body, Sync 3, back-up camera, 302A, 6.5' bed.. all items of luxury although one may argue the back-up camera is a necessity.

If the demand's there, let Chrysler, Ford, and General Motors gouge the buyers. The laws of supply and demand apply here. If Ford didn't, Ford would cease to exist much sooner than we think.

 

I traded in my 2015 F350 recently. I got it as a left over and the MSRP was $51k. 3 years later the best I could get for it as a trade in was $28k and the dealer has it on the lot for $33k. It was extremely clean and had 42k miles so I was really surprised on how quickly it depreciated.

XLT value package, XLT Interior package, 6.2L, Crew cab, 4X4, 6.5' bed, 11400 GVWR, snow plow prep, locking rear, tailgate step, upfitter switches, bed liner, tonneau cover, back up sensors, backup camera, remote start, alarm with shock sensor and probably more things that I forgot about.

 

Today, I had my 2016 F-150 valued by CarMax, they offered me $31,000 without me trading it in. It has low miles though, only 9,800. For me, it wasn't too bad since I bought it at $39k new (down from $51k).

 

I am soon in the market for a new truck and have not committed to any brand. Ram and Chevrolet are/will be new and they won't get kinks out for a while. Toyota has the highest trade in/used value BUT with the mileage their V8 gets it will cancel that out in fuel costs.

 

Let's put some things in perspective....

According to the link you provided, Ford's depreciation is not far off from GM or Ram, and is still better than average for all vehicle models. Not only that, but the new sales data can cause the small difference between the Big 3 in terms of rebates, dealer discounts, etc, which the link fails to specify how the accounted for that information. So when you see less than 5% difference between the Big 3 trucks, that's not even remotely a red flag. Ford also outsells them so there's a larger resale market. More availability on the used market generally means a lower price, where less availability tends to drive up used vehicle price.... again something the link you provided acknowledges.

As for Ford's profits, you've directly contradicted the very data you claim to have referred to. The sources that you refer to actually state there is an average of $10,000 profits on F-Series based on the average selling price of $47,000 during the first few months of 2018. It's not "$10,000 on a high $30's vehicle per the proprietary data I have (largely done parametrically)". What you've done is insert your own parametric data that skews your results.

For comparison, General Motors earlier this year informed investors that they average nearly $17,000 profits on their full-sized pickup truck sales, and they claim this larger profit share comes on the material costs to build an F-150 vs a Silverado (GM cites aluminum costs as a major factor to their increased profitability compared to Ford trucks).

Lastly, your overall industry profits of 2.07%.... where does that data come from? Ahh, from right here: Price to Sales Ratios

Clicking on the link shows Auto and Truck on the 5th line down on the spreadsheet. What does Net Margin show? 2.07%

Ok so we know where you copied and pasted the number from, but what's behind the number? Something interesting on that spreadsheet as the 2nd column is "Number of Firms". The chart is "Revenue Multiples by Sector (US)", but on that line of Auto and Truck it shows 18 manufacturers. Wait a minute........ 18 US manufacturers?!?!?!?! There should be only 3 since technically Tesla is US based and Fiat Chrysler is no longer a US company. What other manufacturers are listed? Well I downloaded detail spreadsheet (found on the link I provided) and found the list of US manufacturers, sure enough here's the 18 of them:

• CVF Technologies Corporation (OTCPK:CNVT)
• Tesla, Inc. (NasdaqGS:TSLA)
• Thor Industries, Inc. (NYSE:THO)
• Winnebago Industries, Inc. (NYSE:WGO)
• Rexhall Industries, Inc. (OTCPK:REXL.Q)
• General Motors Company (NYSE:GM)
• Harley-Davidson, Inc. (NYSE:HOG)
• Electric Car Company, Inc. (OTCPK:ELCR)
• Ford Motor Company (NYSE:F)
• ZAP (OTCPK:ZAAP)
• Carroll Shelby International Inc. (OTCPK:CSBI)
• T3M Inc. (OTCPK:TTTM)
• Elio Motors, Inc. (OTCPK:ELIO)
• Arcimoto, Inc. (NasdaqCM:FUV)
• Confederate Motors, Inc (OTCPK:CFED)
• Alpha Lujo, Inc. (OTCPK:ALEV)
• EMAV Holdings, Inc. (OTCPK:EMAV)
• Armor Electric, Inc. (OTCPK:ARME)

That is quite the "industry"spread, as we have all sorts of manufacturers that aren't even in the same ball park as Ford and GM. So the claim of industry profits from "auto makers" is heavily skewed. It should be comparing auto manufactures like Toyota, Honda, etc to Ford and GM, but instead we have motorcycles, travel trailers and RV's, etc.

Your data is severely flawed and cherry picked in order to skew the facts regarding profits and stock prices. Put things in perspective and Ford's pricing and profits are in-line with it's competitors. Ford's stock prices have many other factors contributing to the decline that has nothing to do with resale value of 5-year old trucks.

 

How does Ford have the worst depreciation when I've already seen 2017 Rams selling used for less than $30K?

I was shopping this past Spring and several dealerships had multiple 2014 4WD STX's (crew or super cab) for $30K or just under. Seems like decent resale to me for a 4 year old truck.

 

 

My stepson has recently rented and still has a 2019 F-150 4x4. I'm guessing it's a base XLT so that would be the 301 package. He likes the tech features that are coming out with new cars now. He wants an F-150 but has realized that the lower trim F-150's don't offer the tech features that he likes, but GM does.

The ultimate sin here is that you have to buy the XLT with the 302a package to get the tech features that GM is practically giving away. My daughter's truck was about $55K MSRP for a fricken XLT.

I hadn't put much thought into this until he mentioned it. There are so danged many new GM trucks on the roads around here.