Starter stays engaged, changed solenoid, problem worse
#1
10-17-2018, 05:43 PM
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Starter stays engaged, changed solenoid, problem worse
1991 Ford Aerostar 3.0
The other day the starter stayed engaged and spinning upon start up. Removed the key, still spinning. Popped the hood, and pulled the "S" cable on the fender mounted starter solenoid next to the battery, and it kept spinning (indicating to me that it's not the ignition switch). Finally pulled the negative battery cable and it stopped.
Try it again the next day and the van starts fine. Over a week passes without it happening again. I figure it will eventually strand me somewhere, so I go ahead and buy a replacement solenoid. I've heard the aftermarket ones are crappy, so I buy the "high performance" solenoid from NAPA ($30) thinking it'd be better. Even the new Motorcraft (like the original) solenoids have terrible reviews online.
Battery is almost new and is holding a complete charge. I go ahead change the battery terminals, and clean up the ground wires. I clean up the holes where the solenoid mounts (which is how it grounds on this model). I double check that it's wired correctly to the solenoid.
Start it up and first try the starter stays engaged and spinning like before. Tried tapping it, nothing. Have to pull the battery cable again. Try it two more times and stays spinning each time. I put the old solenoid back on and it works fine. It's been almost another week and problem hasn't returned, but I don't trust it enough to drive long distance (which I need to do).
My thoughts from here:
-Strange that the old solenoid works but the new one doesn't at all, makes me think that it's a poor quality solenoid problem. What brand makes high quality solenoids for Fords?
-I also think the fact that the new one stuck on the first try means that there's something wrong in the van. The nicest solenoid they sell at NAPA should work better than this right?
-Do I replace the starter next? Looking around the web, seems like replacing the starter has rarely fixed this problem for other people. Starter seems to be working fine. But I'm kinda at loss for what else to try.
What do y'all think? Anyone chased this demon before? What should I try next?
Thanks a lot. I'll definitely post an update when I solve it. I haven't found much good info on this problem online.
The other day the starter stayed engaged and spinning upon start up. Removed the key, still spinning. Popped the hood, and pulled the "S" cable on the fender mounted starter solenoid next to the battery, and it kept spinning (indicating to me that it's not the ignition switch). Finally pulled the negative battery cable and it stopped.
Try it again the next day and the van starts fine. Over a week passes without it happening again. I figure it will eventually strand me somewhere, so I go ahead and buy a replacement solenoid. I've heard the aftermarket ones are crappy, so I buy the "high performance" solenoid from NAPA ($30) thinking it'd be better. Even the new Motorcraft (like the original) solenoids have terrible reviews online.
Battery is almost new and is holding a complete charge. I go ahead change the battery terminals, and clean up the ground wires. I clean up the holes where the solenoid mounts (which is how it grounds on this model). I double check that it's wired correctly to the solenoid.
Start it up and first try the starter stays engaged and spinning like before. Tried tapping it, nothing. Have to pull the battery cable again. Try it two more times and stays spinning each time. I put the old solenoid back on and it works fine. It's been almost another week and problem hasn't returned, but I don't trust it enough to drive long distance (which I need to do).
My thoughts from here:
-Strange that the old solenoid works but the new one doesn't at all, makes me think that it's a poor quality solenoid problem. What brand makes high quality solenoids for Fords?
-I also think the fact that the new one stuck on the first try means that there's something wrong in the van. The nicest solenoid they sell at NAPA should work better than this right?
-Do I replace the starter next? Looking around the web, seems like replacing the starter has rarely fixed this problem for other people. Starter seems to be working fine. But I'm kinda at loss for what else to try.
What do y'all think? Anyone chased this demon before? What should I try next?
Thanks a lot. I'll definitely post an update when I solve it. I haven't found much good info on this problem online.
#2
10-18-2018, 03:01 AM
If not a faulty new relay (somewhat unlikely) the ignition starter switch could be defective. This is lower down inside of the steering column. The steering column lock cylinder where you put the key activates the actual electrical connection that is the ignition starter switch. Limit running the engine with the starter engaged as much as possible, that’ll burn out the starter quick. Could also be a defective starter motor that isn’t retracting properly. You can remove the starter and perform a bench test to check its operation. How many miles on your van?
.
.
#3
10-18-2018, 05:05 PM
The symptoms described sounds like an electrical problem (disconnecting the battery cable stops it).
It's possible that the ignition switch is not working properly. You can test this by disconnecting the thick cable going from the starter relay to the starter motor. Then turn the key to the start position a few times. The relay should click on and off with each time you turn the key. You can hook a light to the starter side of the relay to make sure that it turns off when you release the key each time.
The Aerostar stater uses a permanent magnet motor, so it needs that big solenoid on the side to push out the Bendix gear. Being a big electromagnet, it will send out a big back-EMF pulse when it's suddenly turned off. This can go back the the starter relay, and keep it activated after you release the key. There's usually a suppressing device on the solenoid to absorb this pulse, like a big reverse-biased diode. If this burns out, the pulse generated by starting events will not be suppressed, and can keep the starter relay activated after you release the key. So you would need a new starter.
It's possible that the ignition switch is not working properly. You can test this by disconnecting the thick cable going from the starter relay to the starter motor. Then turn the key to the start position a few times. The relay should click on and off with each time you turn the key. You can hook a light to the starter side of the relay to make sure that it turns off when you release the key each time.
The Aerostar stater uses a permanent magnet motor, so it needs that big solenoid on the side to push out the Bendix gear. Being a big electromagnet, it will send out a big back-EMF pulse when it's suddenly turned off. This can go back the the starter relay, and keep it activated after you release the key. There's usually a suppressing device on the solenoid to absorb this pulse, like a big reverse-biased diode. If this burns out, the pulse generated by starting events will not be suppressed, and can keep the starter relay activated after you release the key. So you would need a new starter.
#4
10-23-2018, 10:24 AM
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Update:
- I cleaned up the grounds.
- Removed the starter for testing... worked good. There was a tremendous amount of road gunk caked up on the positive connection to the starter. Due mostly to the fact that the oil filter is directly above it, so oil pours out onto the starter when you change the filter, then collects dirt.
- I don't know if any of that mattered, because lastly I bought a different solenoid and after putting everything back together, it's working fine. The first replacement from napa was no good or too weak. The second replacement was made by American Auto Parts, and was actually cheaper ($25), though definitely heavier, made in Taiwan. None of the chain auto parts stores sold it, went to the local guy. Lesson learned.
The original solenoid still functions, so now I keep it in the van in case the demon comes back when I'm on the road. Also keeping a socket wrench next to my seat in case the starter decides to go nuts again.
- I cleaned up the grounds.
- Removed the starter for testing... worked good. There was a tremendous amount of road gunk caked up on the positive connection to the starter. Due mostly to the fact that the oil filter is directly above it, so oil pours out onto the starter when you change the filter, then collects dirt.
- I don't know if any of that mattered, because lastly I bought a different solenoid and after putting everything back together, it's working fine. The first replacement from napa was no good or too weak. The second replacement was made by American Auto Parts, and was actually cheaper ($25), though definitely heavier, made in Taiwan. None of the chain auto parts stores sold it, went to the local guy. Lesson learned.
The original solenoid still functions, so now I keep it in the van in case the demon comes back when I'm on the road. Also keeping a socket wrench next to my seat in case the starter decides to go nuts again.
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