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Forscan Misfire Questions

 
  #1  
Old 10-14-2018, 10:07 AM
Beatnik
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Forscan Misfire Questions

Start off with, I'm no engine code expert by far.

I had a take off off hesitation and rough idle, was showing misfiring on the left bank of my 2006 3.0 in the Forscan app. I did all the plug wire/coil swap and it stayed on that side, particularly cylinder 5. After running two tanks of fuel injector cleaner (Royal Purple Atomizer) the hesitation is gone ( note: 5 injectors have 345k on them). 1,2,3 were all 0.00% and 4 at 0.33%, 5 at 0.65% and 6 at 0.16% on TID: 53 Misfire Rate & Type A Threshold for each cylinder.

TID: 56 Cylinder Events Tested is high at 60047.00 and I have yet to get an answer on what that is telling me ?

Still doesn't idle perfect, but do these 3.0 engines ever ? This long block has about 50k on it now, the old one was a recessed valve, should have been recalled engine, that clattered for 297k before finally giving up.

I just started messing with the actual Forscan program and trying to get it set up.
 
  #2  
Old 10-15-2018, 02:15 AM
pawpaw
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Welcome to FTE.

Good idea to have the ELM scantool & FORScan get involved in your trouble shoot. Post up All trouble code Numbers, as they can help focus a trouble shoot.

So the long block has 50K on it & 5 of the 6 injectors have 345K on them, so how many miles on the 6th injector & what position was it in?
Looks like the data suggests the drivers side injectors have a problem for some reason, so have earned a spot on your suspect list.
Was the data posted above before, or after the fuel treatment?
EDIT: Post up the long & short fuel trim for Both cylinder banks.
.
Since there isn't a listed online MSDS, we don't know the recipe of the fuel system cleaner you used & since you didn't post the mix ratio you used twice, we don't know what you should expect but seeing as how you got a positive result, maybe consider giving them another cleaning with the specified dose of 1oz/gal of Techron Concenterate Plus in the tank at the pump before filling, so to get good mixing. If we'll choose Chevron,Texaco, CalTex, or now Shell, all of which have PEA in their fuel ad pack, the additional Techron will raise the treat rate 10X above pump gas alone, so can often get the tidy up job completed in one tank, if we'll run most of the treated tank out before refilling.
Along with the fuel injectors it'll also tidy up the intake valves, combustion chamber & piston crowns, if we'll perform daily rpm run up's to 3500 for a mile or two, like called out in Fords decarbon procedure, it'll help blow out the loosened deposits.
More thoughts for consideration, let us know how it goes & what FORScan turns up.
 
  #3  
Old 10-15-2018, 08:12 AM
Beatnik
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Thanks for the welcome !

When we put the motor in it was giving a cylinder 6 code. Swapped the injector with cylinder 1 and it followed. Replaced that one and it was good to go, so that number 1 injector has about 50k on it.

It hasn't given any codes, just had the hesitation at take off, a bit of a rough idle and now the high mode 6 test on TID: 56. I'll run the techron through and see if the helps and just run a new updated test in a little while. I do blow it out sometimes on the highway. I'll try to attach a recent file I have on the phone.


 
  #4  
Old 10-15-2018, 08:24 AM
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In the new scan, also post up the long & short fuel trim numbers for Both cylinder banks.
When the engine work was done, were Both upstream O2 sensors replaced?
 
  #5  
Old 10-15-2018, 09:30 AM
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All oxygen sensors are original. Heres some shot of the whole test. The 56 went down this time. Then back up in the last picture when I ran it again ?





 
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Old 10-15-2018, 09:33 AM
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  #7  
Old 10-15-2018, 09:35 AM
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TID:56 up again second test.


 
  #8  
Old 10-15-2018, 10:14 AM
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EDIT: Seeing as how these are the original O2 sensors, with 345K miles on them & they have lived 3 lifetimes at this point & O2 sensors switching range & speed will slow with age, sorta like me, will your phone version of FORScan put up the upstream O2 sensors switching speed in Hz?
Also call up & post both cyl banks short & long term fuel trim numbers & O2 sensor switching speed.
 
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Old 10-15-2018, 11:38 AM
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Is this a start ?


 
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Old 10-15-2018, 11:47 AM
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These initial fuel trim numbers look ok.
Have you scanned for trouble codes, if so, post All code Numbers (set, or pending) as they can help focus a trouble shoot.
Also turn Off the AC, so its compressor isn't cycling on & off while your driving. Set the mode switch to the Off position, then go for a drive so your certain it won't cycle on & make you think your feeling a miss/hesitation.
EDIT: Also try turning the OD OFF, so the torque converter isn't locking & unlocking during the test drive.
 
  #11  
Old 10-15-2018, 12:22 PM
Beatnik
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I will do that. This is all I can find on the O2 is voltage, no option for hz. I need to get the laptop and learn with that.



 
  #12  
Old 10-15-2018, 12:23 PM
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I'm not getting codes at all.
 
  #13  
Old 10-15-2018, 06:05 PM
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O2 sensor Bank 2 switching range is all over the place. sometimes ok, other times barely switches at all. Bank 1 switching seems to be more regular/normal range. With the mileage on these sensors I'd consider replacing Both of them, so you have fresh sensors in both cylinder banks. Sensors are normally considered ready for replacement between 75-100K miles & these are three times that mileage & counting.
Have a read & scroll down to have a look-see what a normal O2 sensor switching should look like. https://www.aa1car.com/library/o2sensor.htm. Poke around his library while there, https://www.aa1car.com/, lots of good trouble shooting info for mining, including Mode-6 trouble shooting with an advanced scan tool like the ELM running FORScan. How to trouble shoot sensors, etc

Good feedback on the wet down test looking ok. I'd still do the plug insulator rub down with a good quality silicone grease & spary the coil-pack, as that'll help a cold dew soak that penetrates under the plug boots from causing unseen mischief.
 
  #14  
Old 10-15-2018, 07:55 PM
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Thanks, I'm going to read through that ! It's been colder and lots of rain here the last few days and hasn't seemed to effect anything feel wise.

I have a full set of O2 sensors on the counter, been there for over a year. I guess it's time to install them.
 
  #15  
Old 10-15-2018, 08:10 PM
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I agree its time to install the new sensors.
I made use of Advance Auto "Loan-A-Tool" program to check out their O2 sensor socket/spanner set. The short offset socket sure came in handy changing out the 94 Taurus 3.8L rear bank-1 O2 sensor that was in a Real tight spot. Nice heavy duty 6point sockets that can take some torque & not slip, in case you find one rusted in. I didn't have any problem removing the 94 Taurus O2 sensors a couple of years ago, the factory had used anti-seize on the threads & it worked well.

EDIT: Seeing how your up in cold country with salted roads & the O2 sensors have been in there for 350K miles, you might find them rusted in. So maybe consider a 50/50 home brew rust buster mix of good tranny fluid & acetone, to spray on the slightly warmed up (they don't need to be smoking hot), O2 sensor threads & let it sit over night to creep in. If the bung is heavily rusted, wire brush first then apply the rust buster for at least a over night soak. If they're really stuck, do it over several days with a heat cycle between soaks to cause things to expand & contract to draw the brew in & let us know how it goes. No need to repeatedly short start the engine & run the battery down, you can localy heat things with a heat gun, or propane torch.
More thoughts for consideration, will be interesting to see how the New O2 sensors switching curves look.
 

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