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  #1  
Old 09-25-2018, 12:35 PM
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Old 09-25-2018, 05:26 PM
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No more so than when Edge got hit for $500k, or when H&S had to work down a $96,000,000 judgement. EPA is just hunting for funding by going after low hanging fruit.
 
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Old 09-25-2018, 10:15 PM
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quote from here Derive Systems Enters Agreement With EPA to Enhance Industry Practices | Derive Systems

"Under the agreement we will make investments to demonstrate environmental leadership in the automotive aftermarket industry. These include: emissions tests on new and past model year applications, developing additional training and certification for our custom tuning dealers, removing user-adjustable options associated with O2 and EGR, and building our compliance team."
 
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Old 09-26-2018, 10:22 AM
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Edge's agreement funded a program to replace wood-bruning stoves with EPA-approved wood-burning stoves. It's all a govt scam to raise money to pay for "priorities". Tuning companies were low hanging fruit.
 
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Old 09-27-2018, 04:01 PM
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When anyone steps over the line on federal law, it's just a matter of time before they get nailed...…..in 2013...… when you build a device that shuts off smog control devices and sell it in the US or Europe, you are going to get caught.....no different than Volkswagen recently. Even in the off road community, even though your state may not have strict enforcement, USDA/Fish & Game wardens do enforce.... they have specific training and even carry a nice book with them that ID's (with pictures- color too) the most common illegal swaps, devices and mods that are illegal...and they too can not only cite but impound the vehicle as well. If you are unlucky to have been caught, you get to go before a judge, you are not allowed to speak and a judge decides if the vehicle is to be scrapped, saved, repaired and returned to the owner...…….

It's not like these companies didn't know what they were doing, they did, they are "experts" and if you check closely at their executives backgrounds, you in most cases always find they have a previous history..... typically a "shot in the sky" to the law enforcement community.
 
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Old 09-30-2018, 07:39 PM
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^^^^^^^
I feel the same way.
What did they expect???
 
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Old 09-30-2018, 08:32 PM
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The delete tuning being sold is for competition use only and the customers are made aware of this. The EPA has no power over close course competition vehicles, what the customer does with their vehicle is on them not the tuning company. That would be like suing a gun manufacturer because someone used one of their guns to commit a crime.
 
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Old 10-01-2018, 06:23 AM
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And yet, they were.
 
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Old 10-01-2018, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by 00t444e View Post
The delete tuning being sold is for competition use only and the customers are made aware of this. The EPA has no power over close course competition vehicles, what the customer does with their vehicle is on them not the tuning company. That would be like suing a gun manufacturer because someone used one of their guns to commit a crime.
Not at all, delete tuning is more akin to machining a full-auto fire control for an AR. Any competent machinist can do it, you might even get by on possession the first time, but install it and you now have an unregistered NFA item. There's nothing illegal about racing modifications... until you put it on the street, then it's illegal.

Maybe solvent traps are a better example - they aren't illegal when used as instructed, for "cleaning". But who have ever used a solvent trap for cleaning? It's a veneer so thin it's almost not even plausible. These tuners are sold for "racing" but you and I and everyone else knows the vast majority are used on the street. Just like you and I know solvent traps are used as cheap suppressors. Which is why any idiot who ever bought one on the internet is probably in a database at BAFTE already. Some people actually registered oil filter adapters as suppressors, that's pretty much all the probable cause ATF would need to get an investigation opened on anyone they know has one that's not in the registry. And even then the trap only exists to open the door a crack, just enough so everything else they find in the investigation isn't fruit of the poisonous tree.

If the EPA wanted to, it could start busting owners. But the companies are easier to get at, they know they're guilty, and they settle.
 
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Old 10-01-2018, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by texastech_diesel View Post
Not at all, delete tuning is more akin to machining a full-auto fire control for an AR. Any competent machinist can do it, you might even get by on possession the first time, but install it and you now have an unregistered NFA item. There's nothing illegal about racing modifications... until you put it on the street, then it's illegal.

Maybe solvent traps are a better example - they aren't illegal when used as instructed, for "cleaning". But who have ever used a solvent trap for cleaning? It's a veneer so thin it's almost not even plausible. These tuners are sold for "racing" but you and I and everyone else knows the vast majority are used on the street. Just like you and I know solvent traps are used as cheap suppressors. Which is why any idiot who ever bought one on the internet is probably in a database at BAFTE already. Some people actually registered oil filter adapters as suppressors, that's pretty much the probable cause they would need to get an investigation opened on anyone they know has one. Opens the door a crack, just enough so everything else they find isn't fruit of the poisonous tree.

If the EPA wanted to, it could start busting owners. But the companies are easier to get at, they know they're guilty, and they settle.
The tuning companies state that it is for competition use only. If someone uses it on the street that's not the tuning companys fault.
 
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Old 10-01-2018, 12:26 PM
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Obviously both the EPA and SCT disagree with your position, otherwise they'd be in court and SCT would be arguing your point. And yet SCT decided to settle.
 
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Old 10-01-2018, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by texastech_diesel View Post
Obviously both the EPA and SCT disagree with your position, otherwise they'd be in court and SCT would be arguing your point. And yet SCT decided to settle.
I am not surprised, common sense seems to go out the window anytime the EPA is involved in something.
 
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Old 10-01-2018, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 42 USC 7522 (a)(3)(B)

The following acts and the causing thereof are prohibited—

for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to sell, or install, any part or component intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, where a principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this subchapter, and where the person knows or should know that such part or component is being offered for sale or installed for such use or put to such use;
It's quite blatantly against the law as written. Your opinions on common sense not withstanding, SCT selling a tuner that they merely should know could be used in contravention to a bogus "racing" waiver is in direct and clear violation of the law. Don't get mad at the EPA, the law was written, passed, and amended by no less than five Congresses, signed into law by five different Presidents, and has stood up through over a half dozen major Supreme Court rulings. This is a multi-generational, bipartisan law that SCT clearly was aware of - and clearly in violation of.
 
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Old 10-01-2018, 12:56 PM
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Sometimes common sense is lost in wording of written law.It's unfortunate but happens every day.Leave law and politics out of it and you can only come to one conclusion and that is,we are still moving towards the destruction of mother earth even with our current clean air and water acts.What we're doing is a far cry from enough.I know this may sound rich coming from a guy who owns 3 vehicles built without any emission controls whatsoever,however I also know,that it's actually cleaner to keep these running than it is to replace them with new,as the building of the new replacements actually are more harmful.For the masses though and as we all move forward with newer vehicles,of course we need to respect that we need our daily drivers to burn cleaner if we're to leave a better earth for our next generations.
What's unfortunate here isn't that the EPA is cracking down on folks buying items (or in this case here,going after those building them in larger quantities no doubt,outside the off road/racing communities) to bypass emissions controls,it's that they have to in order for some not to do it.Loop holes and who's lawfully accountable and whatnot aside,really is trivial when you look at what is at stake and that is,mother earth.Our only home.
 
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Old 10-01-2018, 01:20 PM
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I deal with something similar in my profession.As an arborist running a tree service on the coast,I'm often called and asked to clear views along the oceans.More times than not,when I get there,what is cut is already far outside what current shore land zoning codes allow,yet they often want more.
Can you blame them? They have these nice houses,often with large windows along the ocean and they want to enjoy their views.After all,they are paying some dang high taxes for that view too!

However,if it wasn't to our zoning laws,everyone would cut all the trees down and our waters would become much more polluted than they are now and our lands would shrink as the water erodes the soil and washes it out to sea.
We need a minimum amount of our air and dirt purifiers left along our shores,because the tree roots hold the banks and the trees,again through their roots,bring up massive amounts of pollution run off from the soil,remove it and turn it into clean air.

In this case here,no manufacturer of parts to alter a chainsaw is required.Any Joe can just go cutting.Could you imagine what would happen if there were no one to enforce these laws either? Sometimes when it comes to laws,it's not just about corrupt governments wanting control and a revenue creation method,or I guess I probably should say,at least sometimes they create laws that really are actually for the betterment of mankind.Emission controls for all cars built today,is one such law and we should all respect it.
If you don't think it matters,head on out to California.Beautiful country and even with stricter standard,their air is filthy.It's horrible.I was out shooting some night pics of the giant sequoia last winter and what I thought was fog rolling in was really smog and I'm not making this up,it actually rained particulates! I was getting flakes of what looked like ash fallen on me.There were no forest fires around at the time.It was disgusting.Out there is real bad,as they cut so many of their wonderful large trees down that singly could reduce so much and they have more folks living there than all of Canada.They compounded their problem by cutting all the trees down.
The point is,as we learn,we have to do better,sometimes though we may not like it.Just like the folks may not like it when I tell them I can't prune that tree any more or remove any more of them for them.Most of the time though,when it's explained,they are much more understanding and they go from,thinking how controlled the government is with their affairs and their land,to seeing and actually wanting to do what's right and not minding the compromise so much.
That's our issue today when it comes to mother earth.If we don't stop putting our wants before hers,then there wont be a home for our children.We need desperately to check our priorities and we to do it yesterday.We may not like it,but without the EPA,we're not in a good place to live.
 

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