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Bypass oil filters. Using one?

  #1  
Old 09-24-2018, 11:28 AM
Logan1080
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Bypass oil filters. Using one?

I plan on driving my truck into the ground so I'm looking into installing a bypass oil filter. The diesel shops I have called have rarely installed these if at all. I'm not looking to stretch my intervals too much, I just want to run cleaner oil. I run Amsoil signature series 0w-40 and I'm looking at the amsoil bypass filter or else the kit offered by insane diesel. Any feedback would be appreciated, thanks.
 
  #2  
Old 09-24-2018, 11:59 AM
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Amsoil make great products and what you described is what I planned to do if I ever get a new truck or do an engine rebuild. I think it's common sense. The extra filter removes even smaller particles that cause wear in an engine. I will say that we don't know how much that will gain you, but if you sleep better at night knowing the oil is as clean as it can be, then go for it. You have to stretch the interval to guarantee that it is financially worth it.
 
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Old 09-24-2018, 03:31 PM
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^^^^^^^^^
I agree. More filtration never hurt a diesel.
 
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Old 09-24-2018, 04:26 PM
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I owned a '97 w/a 7.3, bone stock 330k miles +, never had an issue with "dirty oil". Changed it every 5k miles, the truck is still alive in Missouri working for its new owner every day. I don't think its necessary to run a by-pass system, and who knows, another filter in line could cause flow restriction, (especially in the cold). But if someone can sell one,........... then good for them.
 
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Old 09-24-2018, 04:39 PM
Logan1080
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The one downside I see is cold weather, the block heater isnt going to warm up the oil in the bypass system.
 
  #6  
Old 09-24-2018, 05:54 PM
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Oil by-pass system take oil from a low pressure, low volume side. In my 7.3l a full cycle of filtered oil for the crankcase was about 45 minutes.
So warm up is not an issue.
It merely helps remove the soot particles that do wear on cylinder walls. Like ash the soot is abrasive.
Will a oil burner run 300k to 400k with and or without, most likely yes.
However, just like all gearheads we all like to tweak our toys in different manners.
It may not be everyone's cup of tea but for those that do....go for it.
 
  #7  
Old 09-24-2018, 07:31 PM
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Cummins has bypassed their motors since before the 1930’s. Even today their Filter housing has fittings for a bypass. If you change oil every weekend then you don’t need one. If you want clean oil down to 2 microns, much longer OCI’s easily up to 30k miles - bypass is for you. I have used a bypass for years.
 
  #8  
Old 09-25-2018, 06:21 AM
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BP filtration is so often misunderstood ... first of all, "bypass" filtration really only refers to a separate lube stream out of the main flow path. But in this thread context, we're going to have to agree that we're talking about a typical, aftermarket available system like those from Amsoil, FS2500, MotorGard, etc. Many OEMs do install BP systems, but they are not as efficient as what we are discussing here via the aftermarket choices. So leave those out of the conversation.

What makes for long, healthy equipment life is a clean lube sump. Any piece of equipment (engine, trans, diff, etc) has a level of tolerance that will result in the sustained long lifecycle; below that threshold is continued success while above it is slow methodical destruction. Once you grasp this concept, then you can understand why/when to use BP or not.

When you put fresh oil into the crankcase at an oil change, it's "clean". But how clean is "clean"? That is a matter of perspective. "Clean enough" is what you should be aiming for; it does not need to be clinically clean for surgical use, nor do you want it to result in infection (excess wear). Most engines today run "clean enough" via the combustion process that they don't soot things up horribly, and with sealed systems, they also don't ingest much moisture.

There are two ways to attain a "clean" (clean enough) sump:
1) filter out the contamination to maintain that sustainable desired level
2) flush out the contamination to maintain that sustainable desired level
Either is viable; neither is "better". They are two means to the same end. The goal is a clean sump, where the contamination level is low enough to help the equipment last a VERY long time. BP filtration does NOT make any piece of equipment last longer. BP filtration makes the LUBE last LONGER in SERVICE. Unless you grasp that concept, you'll be forever lost. No filter ever saved an engine. Filters don't filter engines; filters filter fluids. This is the difference between a direct and indirect relationship.

As long as you have clean fluid in the sump, the equipment will last as long as you want it to. Most abrasive contamination comes from soot; it starts out sub-micron in size. Any "normal" BP filter element really only is effective around 2 to 3 um and larger; anything smaller than that still passes right through the BP media. So it is actually the anti-agglomerate and dispersant additives in oil that help keep the soot very small; smaller than what would do damage to the engine. As the soot starts to overwhelm the add-pack, then the soot will begin to grow in size. Once that happens, wear will begin to escalate as a trend. They key to the "flush out junk" method is to change oil often enough that the soot stays smaller than your wear threshold. It is possible to actually have identical wear rates with different methods, because it is not the BP filter controlling soot early on in the OCI, but the oil additives. A BP element cannot affect things that are too small for it to catch! Hence, the additives and the TCB (tribochemical barrier; see SAE 2007-01-4133) are what control wear in short to moderate OCI duration.

BP filtration is a tool to extend OCIs; that's all. They keep the fluid cleaner LONGER than a traditional filter. They are a tool to extend out your ROI. The really help with large sump systems because the maintenance cost of the BP system is less than the cost of an oil change in many gallons. In small sump systems, however, they really struggle to pay for themselves as their maintenance cost often exceeds the typical oil change.

There are many of examples of vehicles with BP systems running over a million miles, but there are also lots of examples of "normal" filter systems achieving the same task. For any anecdotal success story you see for a BP claim, I can also show you an equally successful story of "normal" oil changes achieving the same effect.

BP systems do NOT make equipment last longer; they make lubes last longer in service. They are a fiscal savings tool, but ONLY if you know how to manage the system well enough to get the ROI to payout.


NOTE: I am well aware of the infamous GM filter study, and how it is regurgitated by many companies (including Amsoil) as proving that more filtration is always better. The GM filter study is grossly biased and does not, in any manner, represent the real world use of lubes and filters today. The data was heavily manipulated to increase wear purposely; IT DOES NOT IN ANY MANNER REPRESENT WHAT HAPPENS TO ENGINES IN YOUR GARAGE. So if you decide to point to this SAE paper, (and those like it), as "proof" that BP filters rule the world, then be prepared for me to counter you with all kinds of data and facts that illuminate these studies for the worthless info that they are. The do not reflect what happens to us in the real world. It's not that the study is invalid; that is not true. It's that the study has no practical application to we common folks because the conditions they induced into the test protocol are INCREDIBLY WAY OFF BASE FROM REALITY IN HOW WE CARE FOR OUR TRUCKS. Hence, you should not rely on a study that does not replicate real world use.
 
  #9  
Old 09-25-2018, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Lariatdriver View Post
Cummins has bypassed their motors since before the 1930ís. Even today their Filter housing has fittings for a bypass. If you change oil every weekend then you donít need one. If you want clean oil down to 2 microns, much longer OCIís easily up to 30k miles - bypass is for you. I have used a bypass for years.
And you will void your warranty on the engine if you go beyond the manufacturers oil change interval requirement. And yes it has happened.
 
  #10  
Old 09-25-2018, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by dnewton3 View Post
BP filtration is so often misunderstood ... first of all, "bypass" filtration really only refers to a separate lube stream out of the main flow path. But in this thread context, we're going to have to agree that we're talking about a typical, aftermarket available system like those from Amsoil, FS2500, MotorGard, etc. Many OEMs do install BP systems, but they are not as efficient as what we are discussing here via the aftermarket choices. So leave those out of the conversation.

What makes for long, healthy equipment life is a clean lube sump. Any piece of equipment (engine, trans, diff, etc) has a level of tolerance that will result in the sustained long lifecycle; below that threshold is continued success while above it is slow methodical destruction. Once you grasp this concept, then you can understand why/when to use BP or not.

When you put fresh oil into the crankcase at an oil change, it's "clean". But how clean is "clean"? That is a matter of perspective. "Clean enough" is what you should be aiming for; it does not need to be clinically clean for surgical use, nor do you want it to result in infection (excess wear). Most engines today run "clean enough" via the combustion process that they don't soot things up horribly, and with sealed systems, they also don't ingest much moisture.

There are two ways to attain a "clean" (clean enough) sump:
1) filter out the contamination to maintain that sustainable desired level
2) flush out the contamination to maintain that sustainable desired level
Either is viable; neither is "better". They are two means to the same end. The goal is a clean sump, where the contamination level is low enough to help the equipment last a VERY long time. BP filtration does NOT make any piece of equipment last longer. BP filtration makes the LUBE last LONGER in SERVICE. Unless you grasp that concept, you'll be forever lost. No filter ever saved an engine. Filters don't filter engines; filters filter fluids. This is the difference between a direct and indirect relationship.

As long as you have clean fluid in the sump, the equipment will last as long as you want it to. Most abrasive contamination comes from soot; it starts out sub-micron in size. Any "normal" BP filter element really only is effective around 2 to 3 um and larger; anything smaller than that still passes right through the BP media. So it is actually the anti-agglomerate and dispersant additives in oil that help keep the soot very small; smaller than what would do damage to the engine. As the soot starts to overwhelm the add-pack, then the soot will begin to grow in size. Once that happens, wear will begin to escalate as a trend. They key to the "flush out junk" method is to change oil often enough that the soot stays smaller than your wear threshold. It is possible to actually have identical wear rates with different methods, because it is not the BP filter controlling soot early on in the OCI, but the oil additives. A BP element cannot affect things that are too small for it to catch! Hence, the additives and the TCB (tribochemical barrier; see SAE 2007-01-4133) are what control wear in short to moderate OCI duration.

BP filtration is a tool to extend OCIs; that's all. They keep the fluid cleaner LONGER than a traditional filter. They are a tool to extend out your ROI. The really help with large sump systems because the maintenance cost of the BP system is less than the cost of an oil change in many gallons. In small sump systems, however, they really struggle to pay for themselves as their maintenance cost often exceeds the typical oil change.

There are many of examples of vehicles with BP systems running over a million miles, but there are also lots of examples of "normal" filter systems achieving the same task. For any anecdotal success story you see for a BP claim, I can also show you an equally successful story of "normal" oil changes achieving the same effect.

BP systems do NOT make equipment last longer; they make lubes last longer in service. They are a fiscal savings tool, but ONLY if you know how to manage the system well enough to get the ROI to payout.


NOTE: I am well aware of the infamous GM filter study, and how it is regurgitated by many companies (including Amsoil) as proving that more filtration is always better. The GM filter study is grossly biased and does not, in any manner, represent the real world use of lubes and filters today. The data was heavily manipulated to increase wear purposely; IT DOES NOT IN ANY MANNER REPRESENT WHAT HAPPENS TO ENGINES IN YOUR GARAGE. So if you decide to point to this SAE paper, (and those like it), as "proof" that BP filters rule the world, then be prepared for me to counter you with all kinds of data and facts that illuminate these studies for the worthless info that they are. The do not reflect what happens to us in the real world. It's not that the study is invalid; that is not true. It's that the study has no practical application to we common folks because the conditions they induced into the test protocol are INCREDIBLY WAY OFF BASE FROM REALITY IN HOW WE CARE FOR OUR TRUCKS. Hence, you should not rely on a study that does not replicate real world use.
very well stated and I agree completly. With
today's diesel engines, filters, and lube oils, for the most part, oils need to be changed more for additive pack depletion and fuel contamination then "dirt"
 
  #11  
Old 09-25-2018, 07:24 AM
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Oil removed after 15,000 miles is in the same condition as oil freshly changed due to extra filtration. Oil analysis does not indicate old oil vs new oil. If oil contains high levels of TBN’s it’s still good regardless of when changed. Soot levels are lower as well with bypass filter use.

On all of the Diesel engines I’ve seen over the years there was usually a dozen filters attached to it. When overhauled the internals were found to be clean, no shock there. Since our trucks don’t have the room for a dozen filters a single 2 micron filter makes sense. If you want a clean sump a 2 micron filter is definitely a plus.

If you are in Ford land, you don’t have to install a bypass but all diesel generators and many trucks run extra filtration.
 
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Old 09-25-2018, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Logan1080 View Post
I plan on driving my truck into the ground so I'm looking into installing a bypass oil filter. The diesel shops I have called have rarely installed these if at all. I'm not looking to stretch my intervals too much, I just want to run cleaner oil. I run Amsoil signature series 0w-40 and I'm looking at the amsoil bypass filter or else the kit offered by insane diesel. Any feedback would be appreciated, thanks.
Is Amsoil on the Ford approved oil list? I am also interested in using this oil.
 
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Old 09-25-2018, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Lariatdriver View Post
Oil removed after 15,000 miles is in the same condition as oil freshly changed due to extra filtration. Oil analysis does not indicate old oil vs new oil. If oil contains high levels of TBNís itís still good regardless of when changed. Soot levels are lower as well with bypass filter use.

On all of the Diesel engines Iíve seen over the years there was usually a dozen filters attached to it. When overhauled the internals were found to be clean, no shock there. Since our trucks donít have the room for a dozen filters a single 2 micron filter makes sense. If you want a clean sump a 2 micron filter is definitely a plus.

If you are in Ford land, you donít have to install a bypass but all diesel generators and many trucks run extra filtration.
do you know what TBN is?
it's not high levels. Its total base number. It's a indacator of the ph of the oil.
 
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Old 09-25-2018, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by bobv60 View Post
do you know what TBN is?
it's not high levels. Its total base number. It's a indacator of the ph of the oil.

Yes, Professor,
The TBN line on the Blackstone analysis report indicates the remaining lubricious (o.k. pH) in the oil. They have a guide posted for this. For those who test their oil often refer to this as their TBN.
 
  #15  
Old 09-25-2018, 09:06 AM
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I think the 6.7 IOLM is reasonably long (8k+ for me generally) so I don't worry about changing oil too much. I don't see how a filter can make your oil last 30k miles. There's still fuel dilution, oxidation, TBN, etc to think about. I don't see the point in trying to push OCIs beyond the standard range. Most people put around 20k per year on their truck. That's about 2.5 oil changes a year. You can change the oil and filter for $70 easily. Much less if you watch sales. So that's $175 a year. So suppose you start changing your oil every year, at 20k miles. Then your yearly expense drops to one oil change plus the price of a bypass filter ($30?--I'm guessing here) so then your yearly expense is $100. That's altogether a savings of $75 per year. The systems cost roughly $300 from what I've seen. So you get that back in 4 years. What's my point? I don't think there is a financial benefit here for the average person. If you're putting 150k miles on your truck every year, it starts to make more sense. Moreso, the downtime associated with the oil changes. I'm not knocking it at all. I do crap to my truck that doesn't make financial sense. Hell, purchasing my truck in the first place didn't make financial sense when I could have bought a used truck with the capability I needed for $20k.
 

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