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So I have SSBC 8 piston brakes on all 4 wheels. I would like to do the coil spring 2005+ axle conversion for the improved ride. But I really do not want to go backwards with the brakes.
Is there any way to fit the current SSBC brakes to the newer axles? Change out back plates or knuckles? Anyone know what the differences are between the years?
2005 f250 calipers are going to have more piston area and therefore more clamping force aka “ better brakes” then your ssbc brakes which are exactly the same piston area and clamping force as the stock 99-05 caliper.
stock 05 f250 brakes will be an “upgrade” to your ssbc calipers
2005 f250 calipers are going to have more piston area and therefore more clamping force aka “ better brakes” then your ssbc brakes which are exactly the same piston area and clamping force as the stock 99-05 caliper.
stock 05 f250 brakes will be an “upgrade” to your ssbc calipers
This is just way off. The SSBC calipers, with 8 pistons and a MUCH larger pad than oem have FAR more piston area than the single sided slide calipers of 99-04. Have you actually seen SSBC 8 piston calipers? I do not have a 2005 caliper to compare to but the difference from my oem 2002 ones is very significant.
i am in mexico traveling right now so not at my desk with access to the specs but i have done the comparison and the math and what i posted is factual. if you search this forum i have posted the specs for both calipers.
bottom line is the ssbc uses smaller but more pistons then the 99-05 Excursion calipers, they add up to the same piston area and clamping force. the ssbc look bitchen but performance wise fo not have more clamping force then the stock 99-05 excursion calipers.
the 2005 and newer f250 calipers are larger then the 99-04 f250 and ssbc calipers
Ok, dual 2.12 diameter pistons on the front caliper (it only has 2) is 7.05 sq inches.
SSBC has (8) 1.57 inch pistons is 15.57 sq inches and its against a MUCH larger pad (nearly 2x) to spread out the heat load. More than twice the piston area from OEM.
The rear also has an even more significant difference.
Your conclusions are not correct, its a significant brake upgrade.
I have them and the performance in the mountains is amazing vs oem single sided caliper. Everyone that has them has experienced the upgrade vs the woefully inadequate stock brakes. And they hold up long term.
Perhaps the 2005 plus brakes are an upgrade from 2004 but still a step back from what SSBC offers. Not tossing the upgrade. Strong, confident brakes are not to be dismissed.
Your conclusions are not correct, its a significant brake upgrade.
I have them and the performance in the mountains is amazing vs oem single sided caliper. Everyone that has them has experienced the upgrade vs the woefully inadequate stock brakes. And they hold up long term.
Perhaps the 2005 plus brakes are an upgrade from 2004 but still a step back from what SSBC offers. Not tossing the upgrade. Strong, confident brakes are not to be dismissed.
Well let's get the brake expert over here regarding clamping force and all that stuff you guys are talking about.
Clamping force is calculated from one side of a opposing piston caliper. So as long as all pistons total up to the same surface area on one side then they are equal.
With the stock two piston calipers you have applied force on one side and reactive force on the other, no loss on either side. Pistons on both sides do two things, they allow for more float for more even contact. Single sided calipers, even those like on our vehicles develop some taper wear in the pads, even though the brake torque load of the pads are carried to the brackets, there still is some twisting there. Can’t show this typing on an iPad in a farm field.
The second advantage with some opposing piston caliper is they don’t flex across the bridge and caliper fingers sinceeach side is bolted to the bracket on both ends. You can still get some bowing though, it depends on the stiffness of the caliper half’s.
However, one of the design criteria of the Superduty brake since the ‘99 launch was to have stiff calipers, and just by picking them up is telling. Again will have to do pictures later, but many calipers flex in the bridge and fingers, just like if you use a light duty c-clamp very tight. Cup your fingers, thumb pointing out and to you. You can mimic the flex. GM F body calipers were terrible for this and you can find bent calipers buying a rebuilt caliper. It really screws up fade results or stopping distance because the harder you press, the lees surface area of the outer pad you have. Superdutys don’t have that issue.
Back to the issue, if you put a load cell in both a single and opposing piston caliper, both same piston area, apply 300psi you will get the same exact loading. Used to do that in a training class.
Somewhere in a site from UK there’s a brake engineer who shows this in calculations. Saw it years ago but never kept the address.
ford 2 piston @ 2.12 diameter = 7.07 sq inch surface area
ssbc 4 piston @ 1.57 diameter = 7.40 sq inch surface area
having test drove the ssbc in a comparison to stock with both using coefficient of friction FF pad there was no decernable diffrence. the stopping distance comparisions we did were not exact because the weights of the vehicles were about 500 pounds different and diffrent tires.
OE '99-04 Federal-Mogul EE pads were 0.34/0.35
OE '05-08 Federal-Mogul FE pads were 0.36/0.35
There's an aftermarket pad that people like thats FF, 0.35/0.40. It gets aggressive with temp.
7.07 sqin @1000 psi = 7,070 lbs clamping x 0.35 mu = 2,474.5 lb force.
7.40 sqin @1000 psi = 7,400 lbs clamping x 0.35 mu = 2,590.0 lb force, a 4.7% improvement.
Normal stopping hyd press on a '06 diesel is 250psi, the Pedal Effort is 20lbs. So now you stop with 19lb pedal effort.
Front wheel incipient skid hyd pressure on a '06 diesel is 1300 psi, pedal effort 52lbs. So now you stop with 50lbs pedal effort.
7.07 sqin @1000psi = 7,070 lbs clamping force x 0.40 mu = 2,828.0 lb force, a 14% improvement.
Easier to change the friction then hump hardware. It's how we did it developing a production brake system.
I think I just did the numbers right, it's been 10 years and I'm tired.
And another post at an attempt to explode Stewart's brain, and something Pirate might like.
Sometimes people asking a question do better with third party answers. The simplest solution is to ask the people that manufactured the item, but you can not get a direct answer and walks away with "other" benefits comments.
To get to the basics of the question of forces we'd have to go back to Newton's third law, but I'm not going down that path. Google if you care to.
Another site that I found that is good with some simple explanations but still includes the calculation that the UK site does is this one. It may help for future reference.
In a race car environment such as a road course, basically a drag race with incipient braking when you're not sliding through turns, an opposing piston caliper design is an advantage. The stiffness of the caliper, because you are always braking at high pressures, means you get the best surface area contact, and if you are running tight bearing and rotor runout, there's not much take-up travel. But these brake pressures are high, and so are the clamping forces.
In a public driving vehicle brake pressures are typically relatively low, usually in the 200-300 psi range. The vehicle still has to be capable of high deceleration for shortest stopping distance, and you want capability to exceed that when the vehicle loading is a GVW or higher (to a point). Today we can let the ABS system take the place of skilled brake actuation, which is good because when you are about to T-Bone a car or a baby carriage is in front of you, you tend to try to push the brake pedal into the front bumper by pure adrenaline. FMVSS standards are in place to ensure good braking capability. And if what's in the Federal Register isn't enough, there sure is competition between manufacturer engineers to have better brake then the other guy. Yes, there are production and cost limitations. A four or six pot caliper pushes costs way up, and always requires a tightening in the specifications of bearing play and rotor runout as rotor knock back is one of the means to achieve clearance between the pads and rotors. Too much and you get progressively long pedal travel while driving, something Corvettes were placed with long ago in production, more so in rotor turning service.
09-24-2018, 10:44 AM
