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Fuel in Coolant

  #31  
Old 09-24-2018, 01:06 PM
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Yeah tell me about it, if I have DP redo my tunes itís like 50 bucks or something per tune and I have an F5 with like 15 freakin tunes. Itís cheaper to get a hydra with some standard tunes from full force with the purchase of the injectors. Iím still contemplating throwing the old ones back in idk Iím giving myself until Friday to think it through.
 
  #32  
Old 09-24-2018, 02:46 PM
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Each vendor has their own policy on tune modifications and updates so take that into consideration.

I don't know if it applies to the nozzle size regardless of injector size but I would confirm if you can use the "standard tunes" library with the Hydra. If you go single shots that automatically buys you into custom tuning.

Looking back I can say that I would have kept my original injectors. Even though they had 305K on them they were still running well and providing trouble-free injection. They were old and tired and I came into some cash that I hadn't expected so I decided to go for it and got the new single shot injectors I'd been dreaming of for years. It did not turn out the be the fairy tale I had expected.

I'm sure I'm more the exception that the rule but it has still been frustrating. In case you are curious:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-and-more.html

If I had it to do over again I would have stuck with my original injectors and waited until I had an injector problem or rebuilt the engine before exploring new sticks.

I love the power but it has not been an easy transition to my Stage 2 sticks and CA has not made it any easier.

Just my .02
 
  #33  
Old 09-24-2018, 07:41 PM
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Thanks for the advice man. Sounds like youíve been through more than enough. Whatís your recommendation for cleaning the bores? I think Iím going to break it down into several cleaning sessions. The number 7 is gonna be damn near impossible to clean out effectively because iíll be blind. I almost feel like I need one of those little scope cameras.

 
  #34  
Old 09-25-2018, 10:49 AM
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I bought a scope camera for my android phone for about $20 and it worked really well. It came in handy more than a few times for seeing in the passages to make sure I caught all the debris (especially for cylinders #7 and #8). I was able to snap pictures too with the free app I was using (called CameraFi or something like that).

I cut a rag so I put some kind of protection in the passages when I was removing the old Loctite. I only did this in injector holes 1-4 as 5-8 you're "blind" as you were saying. Relying on reflections in a mirror or pictures from the scope to verify cleanliness for something I put in there was well past my comfort level.

I'm still trying to finish my write-up but here's a basic rundown on what I ended up doing to clean the bores after some trial and error:

- I used a thick artist's paintbrush handle to put in the hole into the cylinder to keep debris from falling into the cylinder.
- I used a long, think flat blade screwdriver to gently break up the Loctite residue at the bottom of the bore (tapped the back of the screwdriver with my hand to chip the residue away). It doesn't take much pressure to break it loose.
- I used a shop vac to suck all of the pieces out.
- I did not have any compound left at the top of the cup so the upper portion of the bore was debris-free.
- Cleaning the bores. I got a couple of brushes from CAT and they were semi-effective. I ended up getting a flexible shaft for my rotary tool and getting some various sized wheels from Harbor Freight to clean up the bores top to bottom.
- Once that was done I vacuumed again to get anything else that might be left or created by the wheels.
- I used rubbing alcohol for a final clean before installing the cups. I used 90% and I also got some medical-style swabs (long sticks with cotton tips) to reach all of the surfaces.

Word of caution: if you go the cotton swab route make sure you test them first! I bought a couple of bags off of Amazon and one of the first ones I used the cotton tip came off the stick in the bore. Luckily I started with cylinder #2 and it didn't fall into the cylinder. After that I pulled on each one before I used it to make sure it wasn't going to come apart on me. I'd say about 20% of them did not pass the quality control test.
 
  #35  
Old 09-26-2018, 10:24 PM
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Might be getting ahead myself here but is it really necessary to heat/hot torque check the oil deflector and hold down bolts under the valve cover?
 
  #36  
Old 09-27-2018, 10:43 AM
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The oil spout and injector upper hold-down bolt don't need any further checks. It's the injector lower hold-down bolt that has been known to walk/stretch. You can also check your rocker bolts too if you feel the need.

I am a proponent of the hot torque check. I've done it several times and all of my lower hold-down bolts were loose...all of them.

When I replaced my injectors I put new injector bolts in (upper and lower). Torqued everything down, warmed the engine up, then hot torqued. 5K miles later I was getting a noticeable knock and went back under the covers for another hot torque and all the lower bolts were at least 1/4 turn loose.

There are several threads floating around with the discussion and some non-OEM approaches to battle this. Some trucks are more susceptible than others it seems.

Bolts to check if you want to hot torque:

 
  #37  
Old 09-30-2018, 09:14 PM
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Well I pulled the cups and rebuilt my turbo and as far as cleaning goes I only finished the passenger side. Itís a slow going process and Iím being very patient to make sure they seat perfectly and stay seated with NO more leaks! I will probabaly clean and clean again. I ordered a 90 degree adapter for my drill so I could get a wire brush down on the 5 and 7. Worked like a charm. Iíd hit the brush with some sprays of brake cleaner then stuck it down there and then plug the hole with a massive Q-Tip and then blast with air. I wasnít too concerned about cthe small pieces of crap getting in the coolant cavities. Iím going to flush the **** out of it anyways. For the pesky pieces of glue down there Iíd use my bore camera and some dental tools (compliments of my grandpa RIP) and scrape away and then rinse and repeat.

*found an imperfection in the iron that the injector hold down bolt goes into on #5. Itís not a crack but rather a little chip on the outer edge? Itís not enough to harm structural integrity or anything like that but I was still just like WTF. Iíll upload a pic next time the VCs come off. Also a small brass hair left over from cup removal almost gave me a heart attack because I thought it was a crack.

What is the technique to apply the new retaining compound. Doing this job right is adequate cleaning and proper application of the goo. Iíve read of 4 dudes who had to take **** apart 4 times because they kept leaking either due to poor cleaning or poor application of the retaining compound. I swear if I have to pull **** apart twice, three times and four times I will lose my mind. Nobody got time for that.
 
  #38  
Old 10-01-2018, 09:44 AM
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I'm not sure where you got the cup/tool/compound from but I got mine from Riffraff.

His "kit" came with a 10ml bottle of 620 that I thought was not going to be enough but it turned out to be plenty. I made sure I had good coverage on the upper and lower portions then made sure the cup was firmly seated. Let it set for AT LEAST the minimum cure time. I was working other things so ended up not starting it for several months later so the Loctite had plenty of time to cure.

I can't find the picture of my Loctite application "skills" but it looks similar to Riffraff's instructions (Figure 6) just a little thicker: http://www.riffraffdiesel.com/conten...eplacement.pdf

I wasn't stingy about how much I used as, like you, I don't want to do this again if possible...ever. There was still some left in the bottle when I was done and I did all 8 cups.

This is what it looks like with my cup installed. You can see that there is no sealant in the injector hole and a small amount around the top:

 
  #39  
Old 10-01-2018, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by brian42 View Post
I'm not sure where you got the cup/tool/compound from but I got mine from Riffraff.

His "kit" came with a 10ml bottle of 620 that I thought was not going to be enough but it turned out to be plenty. I made sure I had good coverage on the upper and lower portions then made sure the cup was firmly seated. Let it set for AT LEAST the minimum cure time. I was working other things so ended up not starting it for several months later so the Loctite had plenty of time to cure.

I can't find the picture of my Loctite application "skills" but it looks similar to Riffraff's instructions (Figure 6) just a little thicker: http://www.riffraffdiesel.com/conten...eplacement.pdf

I wasn't stingy about how much I used as, like you, I don't want to do this again if possible...ever. There was still some left in the bottle when I was done and I did all 8 cups.

This is what it looks like with my cup installed. You can se that there is no sealant in the injector hole and a small amount around the top:



Same kit and same goo as yours through RiffRaff. Iím probably overthinking but itís definitely a good thing. Thanks for the help man, the pictures and all.
 
  #40  
Old 10-11-2018, 10:16 PM
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Had to suck some crap out of #8 with a syringe to get the bottom clean and dry enough. Iíve got these Q-tips that are the size of a quarter that work great. Iím still not satisfied with 7 and 8. Will likely be cleaning more. Also, I thought I saw another crack down in the aft coolant passage of #6 and almost had a heart attack again, but it was a scrape from me wiffing with a brass brush from cleaning the bore where the top of the cup seals.
 
  #41  
Old 10-11-2018, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by brian42 View Post
Each vendor has their own policy on tune modifications and updates so take that into consideration.

I don't know if it applies to the nozzle size regardless of injector size but I would confirm if you can use the "standard tunes" library with the Hydra. If you go single shots that automatically buys you into custom tuning.

Looking back I can say that I would have kept my original injectors. Even though they had 305K on them they were still running well and providing trouble-free injection. They were old and tired and I came into some cash that I hadn't expected so I decided to go for it and got the new single shot injectors I'd been dreaming of for years. It did not turn out the be the fairy tale I had expected.

I'm sure I'm more the exception that the rule but it has still been frustrating. In case you are curious:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-and-more.html

If I had it to do over again I would have stuck with my original injectors and waited until I had an injector problem or rebuilt the engine before exploring new sticks.

I love the power but it has not been an easy transition to my Stage 2 sticks and CA has not made it any easier.

Just my .02

i tried to follow your story but just to many links..... I see you did cups but didnít see any mention of what was the issue with your replacement injectors ?
 
  #42  
Old 10-11-2018, 10:54 PM
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Did anybody else receive cups that were drastically different? Take a look at the corners and the length of the top mating surface. They have different machined surfaces too one has striations and the other is smooth.


*update* talked to Clay said it was fun to return them for 8 identical cups like the cups to the left in the picture.
 
  #43  
Old 10-12-2018, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by pirate4x4_camo View Post
i tried to follow your story but just to many links..... I see you did cups but didn’t see any mention of what was the issue with your replacement injectors ?
Sorry about the links. I tried to minimize reproducing information and also tried to parcel it out so that people could pick and choose what they wanted to read, especially if they had seen any of the other threads.

I have a slight knock right now but there was nothing really physically wrong with the injectors. My biggest headache was getting them dialed in to pass smog. Luckily PHP came through for me as Gearhead was having issues at the time and P.I.S. was (and still is) a mess.

I bought new injectors from P.I.S. right before Gray's purchased them. Customer service was terrible from the moment I paid for them. I felt like a 16 year-old kid at a Porsche dealership...totally ignored and written off. I could never get ahold of anybody and support was non-existent. I know I'm not a high roller or repeat customer but I think a few thousand dollars should get me some level of service (regardless of what their profit margin is). I finally wrote them off when the owner sent me a less than friendly e-mail.

Originally Posted by Dude-Ford View Post



Did anybody else receive cups that were drastically different? Take a look at the corners and the length of the top mating surface. They have different machined surfaces too one has striations and the other is smooth.


*update* talked to Clay said it was fun to return them for 8 identical cups like the cups to the left in the picture.
All of mine were nice and shiny when I got them so wasn't an issue.
 
  #44  
Old 10-12-2018, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by brian42 View Post
Sorry about the links. I tried to minimize reproducing information and also tried to parcel it out so that people could pick and choose what they wanted to read, especially if they had seen any of the other threads.

I have a slight knock right now but there was nothing really physically wrong with the injectors. My biggest headache was getting them dialed in to pass smog. Luckily PHP came through for me as Gearhead was having issues at the time and P.I.S. was (and still is) a mess.

I bought new injectors from P.I.S. right before Gray's purchased them. Customer service was terrible from the moment I paid for them. I felt like a 16 year-old kid at a Porsche dealership...totally ignored and written off. I could never get ahold of anybody and support was non-existent. I know I'm not a high roller or repeat customer but I think a few thousand dollars should get me some level of service (regardless of what their profit margin is). I finally wrote them off when the owner sent me a less than friendly e-mail.


All of mine were nice and shiny when I got them so wasn't an issue.

i am looking at doing injectors in the next year and also in CA so smog is a concern.
what injectors did you use ? And did you eventually get them to pass ?

For tunes I will be use the tunes that swamps offers with purchase but am learning the Minatour tuning software and will eventually write my own.
 
  #45  
Old 10-12-2018, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by pirate4x4_camo View Post
i am looking at doing injectors in the next year and also in CA so smog is a concern.
what injectors did you use ? And did you eventually get them to pass ?

For tunes I will be use the tunes that swamps offers with purchase but am learning the Minatour tuning software and will eventually write my own.


I got them to pass but not by much (opacity Snap Test was borderline). I was under the gun (2 months past due for smog when I got the truck running) and Bill at PHP was able to whip up a "smog" tune for me to help me out in a pinch.

I bought new 160cc/80% injectors from P.I.S. I would not recommend them after the experience I had with them. My close second choice was Full Force which is where I will turn to from here on out with injectors.

Now that I've got some miles on the new injectors and GH has their act together I'm going to try and dial in things a little better (top of the heap or not GH has lifetime updates). The GH tunes are pretty clean and I suspect the only way I'm going to clear them up is either pull way back on fuel or get a 38R turbo.
 

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