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5.4l 3v oil pressure

 
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Old 09-13-2018, 12:29 PM
powersj
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5.4l 3v oil pressure

I had codes 0340,0344.0345,0349, 08 Expedition. I replaced VVT solenoids and the cam shaft sensors. Still not running right just a little miss. while running. Took it to a mechanic he told me oil PSI is at 20 so he is saying bearing seal probably shot you need a new motor. I know it probably jumped timing that is why I thing it might be running rough. What do you think the proper oil PSI should be and is 20 psi okay. I thought about replacing the phasers,chain and guides and maybe dropping the oil pan and checking the oil pick up screen to see if it clogged and maybe replacing the factory oil pump. Any suggestions would be great. Not looking to spend 7 grand on a motor
 
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Old 09-14-2018, 12:55 PM
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When is it at 20 PSI? That is important. Ford's statement on "hot idle" oil pressure is that it should be no less than 15 PSI. If yours is at 20 PSI at hot idle, you should be okay (I'd rather see a minimum of 25, but that's just my opinion). If it's at 20 PSI during high revs (2000+) then yes, you have a problem (it should be @ 40-50 PSI minimum). But a new motor? I think this guy is trying to pull a fast one on you.

If it were me, I would do exactly what you stated - "replacing the phasers,chain and guides and maybe dropping the oil pan and checking the oil pick up screen to see if it clogged and maybe replacing the factory oil pump". For the oil pump I'd use the Melling M360HV. Your motor more than likely has blown a tensioner seal (or both) and is losing pressure there (if it's an 04 or newer). Replace the cam chain tensioners with the Melling cast iron units that ratchet. Definitely drop the oil pan and check the pick up screen and clear out any pieces of the chain guides that may have fallen in there (if the guides are broken). While you have the oil pan off you can look at your rods/bearings (they're most likely just fine). But while you have the valve covers off, be sure to look at your cams and caps, rockers and lash adjusters. They are most likely fine as well, but it never hurts to check for any unusual wear. It's a bit of work, sure, but it shouldn't run you more than $1600 in parts and maybe another $2500 in labor.
 
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Old 09-14-2018, 01:00 PM
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Thanks, he is trying to tell me that he would have to pull the engine to replace the oil pump because of the pick up tube. I believe the pick up tube is only bolted onto the oil pump by two 8mm bolts but I am not sure. I have done a ton of research because this guy never calls me back I don't understand how he keeps customers.
 
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Old 09-14-2018, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by powersj View Post
Thanks, he is trying to tell me that he would have to pull the engine to replace the oil pump because of the pick up tube. I believe the pick up tube is only bolted onto the oil pump by two 8mm bolts but I am not sure. I have done a ton of research because this guy never calls me back I don't understand how he keeps customers.
Run, do not walk, run away from this so-called "mechanic"! What type of vehicle? I'm assuming that if you're on this forum, it's an F-150. What year? 2wd or 4wd?
 
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Old 09-14-2018, 02:02 PM
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Watch a YouTube video on 3v cam phasers replacement. Shows very well how easy it is to replace the oil pump while the engine is still in the truck.
 
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Old 09-14-2018, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Rumble phish View Post
Run, do not walk, run away from this so-called "mechanic"! What type of vehicle? I'm assuming that if you're on this forum, it's an F-150. What year? 2wd or 4wd?
08 expedition el with thev5.4 about 130000miles on it
 
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Old 01-22-2019, 03:02 PM
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I agree GET YOUR TRUCK AWAY FROM THIS IGNORAMUS AS QUICKLY AS YOU CAN!

Ignoramus is being kind, I really think he's trying to line his pockets. This is a trick mechanics and plumbers and electricians learn quickly Once he has replaced your engine with a rebuilt, which will probably run better than your old one, you won't be able to prove that the old engine just needed a little fixing. The old engine is gone. Or sump pump. Or circulating pump. Or breaker box, etc etc etc.
The really good ones can fleece you and make you feel good about it. Wow, you dodged a bullet! Could have burned down the house around your ears!

Now I know that none of the tradesmen on this board would use such shady tactics. But admit it, those guys are out there. Maybe they salve their conscience by saying, "Well, it would have failed in a few years anyway."
Case in point - My home heat boiler I installed 11 years ago and I am ashamed to admit a couple of the solder joints had leaks. The leaks have stopped but there is scale built up where the leak was. We had a plumber in to do something else and he took one look at that admittedly imperfect joint and started on about how it had to be fixed right then and there because it was obviously going to blow. Well, it hadn't blown in 10 years through thousands of heat-cool cycles and even if it did blow, the damage would be affordable. But this guy saw a $4,000 repipe job and was aiming towards that. We escorted him out of the house.
A couple of weeks later I had a boiler repair expert in to do Fall inspection and he said there's nothing wrong with the installation, but if it was his system he'd tidy up the couple of leaking fittings. Noting immediate, this would be more of a nice to have fix.
Caveat emptor!
R.
 
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Old 01-26-2019, 11:18 PM
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I disagree. The 3V is a POS. It's not in a shop's best interest to piece it together and hope that it doesn't come back. Not saying the shop is good or bad, but I'd rather put in an engine with a warranty than patch a used engine up for close to $3,000. My own '04 literally melted the passenger camshaft into the head at 120,000 miles and it had about 22 psi hot idle. The $3200 engine was installed for $1400, But I went ahead and replaced the alternator, starter, PS pump, and AC compressor at the same time. Zero issues for the 2 years since it was finished.
 
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Old 01-30-2019, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by powersj View Post
Thanks, he is trying to tell me that he would have to pull the engine to replace the oil pump because of the pick up tube. I believe the pick up tube is only bolted onto the oil pump by two 8mm bolts but I am not sure. I have done a ton of research because this guy never calls me back I don't understand how he keeps customers.
Originally Posted by Bent6 View Post
I disagree. The 3V is a POS. It's not in a shop's best interest to piece it together and hope that it doesn't come back. Not saying the shop is good or bad, but I'd rather put in an engine with a warranty than patch a used engine up for close to $3,000. My own '04 literally melted the passenger camshaft into the head at 120,000 miles and it had about 22 psi hot idle. The $3200 engine was installed for $1400, But I went ahead and replaced the alternator, starter, PS pump, and AC compressor at the same time. Zero issues for the 2 years since it was finished.
bent6, you're not wrong. I recently went through something similar with my 2004 F-150 with a 4.5L 3V motor. Except the motor was screwed by the previous owner (lack of maintenance). i disagree that the 5.4L 3V is a "POS", but it is certainly finicky and requires the owner to be very diligent about the maintenance.

In regards to what this mechanic is telling the OP; The fact that he's saying that the motor must be pulled to replace the oil pump is why we're saying to run from this guy. That is ABSOLUTELY not the case and a decent, honest mechanic would not only know this, but would mention it.
 
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Old 01-30-2019, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Rumble phish View Post
bent6, you're not wrong. I recently went through something similar with my 2004 F-150 with a 4.5L 3V motor. Except the motor was screwed by the previous owner (lack of maintenance). i disagree that the 5.4L 3V is a "POS", but it is certainly finicky and requires the owner to be very diligent about the maintenance.

In regards to what this mechanic is telling the OP; The fact that he's saying that the motor must be pulled to replace the oil pump is why we're saying to run from this guy. That is ABSOLUTELY not the case and a decent, honest mechanic would not only know this, but would mention it.
My engine was pretty clean inside, so I believe it was maintained. The 3v has a marginal oil system, so things fall apart quickly when the tensioners start to leak or the oil pump gets weak which does happen even in engines that are well maintained. There are some that never have issues just noise, but I work with at least 4 guys who traded their trucks in due to phaser noise. That said some trucks run a loooong time even with phaser noise.

I agree that the engine doesn't need to be pulled to change the oil pump, but one of my coworkers pulled his oil pan to pull and clean his pick-up screen. He said his was pretty loaded with debris.
 
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Old 02-07-2019, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Bent6 View Post
My engine was pretty clean inside, so I believe it was maintained. The 3v has a marginal oil system, so things fall apart quickly when the tensioners start to leak or the oil pump gets weak which does happen even in engines that are well maintained. There are some that never have issues just noise, but I work with at least 4 guys who traded their trucks in due to phaser noise. That said some trucks run a loooong time even with phaser noise.

I agree that the engine doesn't need to be pulled to change the oil pump, but one of my coworkers pulled his oil pan to pull and clean his pick-up screen. He said his was pretty loaded with debris.
This is what I was told was causing my phaser noise, plugged pick up screen and sludge in oil pan. They cleaned that up, pressure went up, noise went away. That was about 3500 miles ago, so far, so good.
What are the thoughts on oil weight for this engine? My 06 has 137k miles on it and I switched to 5W-30. Was this a bad idea?
 
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Old 02-07-2019, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Rumble phish View Post
bent6, you're not wrong. I recently went through something similar with my 2004 F-150 with a 4.5L 3V motor. Except the motor was screwed by the previous owner (lack of maintenance). i disagree that the 5.4L 3V is a "POS", but it is certainly finicky and requires the owner to be very diligent about the maintenance.

In regards to what this mechanic is telling the OP; The fact that he's saying that the motor must be pulled to replace the oil pump is why we're saying to run from this guy. That is ABSOLUTELY not the case and a decent, honest mechanic would not only know this, but would mention it.
Rumble phish you sound quite knowledgeable on these engines. On my way to work this morning my 2006 F150 5.4 137k died at a light. It fired right back up but the idle seems low and is fluctuating. It has been cold here is Seattle area, 15F this morning. I recently replaced coil packs as I was getting The Miss, I went with Pertronix because I am really getting tired of throwing $$ at this thing. I searched this area of the forum and the truck area for this year and didn't find much. Some people say IAC, but then I see that this TBW set up does not have an IAC. Any suggestions?
 
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Old 02-07-2019, 11:09 AM
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Well what I did was take off everything on the front a valve covers. I replace timing chains, phasers,guides and oil pump chain tensioners etc. go to youtube and look up fordtechmakuloco I followed his video instructions on the 5.4 timing issues it was really a great video. The expedition I have had 173000 miles on it when I changed everything and he suggest 5w30 instead of 5w20 he feels it protects the phasers and stuff better
 
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Old 02-07-2019, 11:10 AM
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Old 02-07-2019, 05:23 PM
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Did the CEL come on?

Originally Posted by rd65 View Post
Rumble phish you sound quite knowledgeable on these engines. On my way to work this morning my 2006 F150 5.4 137k died at a light. It fired right back up but the idle seems low and is fluctuating. It has been cold here is Seattle area, 15F this morning. I recently replaced coil packs as I was getting The Miss, I went with Pertronix because I am really getting tired of throwing $$ at this thing. I searched this area of the forum and the truck area for this year and didn't find much. Some people say IAC, but then I see that this TBW set up does not have an IAC. Any suggestions?
Have you checked for any codes that have been thrown, or that are pending? If you don't have one, i highly suggest you pick up an inexpensive bluetooth OBD2 reader off of Amazon (I got one for $25), and then purchase the Torque Pro app off of the Google Play store (Android only, $5). best $30 bucks I've ever spent on "tools". If the CEL didn't light up, there may still be "pending" codes that are in the system. Yeah, it very well could be the IAC, or even the TBW system. Of the two mentioned, I'd lean towards cleaning or replacing the IAC to see if that clears the issue up. Could also be a plugged cat, but I would think there would have been prior symptoms.
 

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