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Swap a new engine into 77 F100

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Old 09-05-2018, 04:33 PM
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Swap a new engine into 77 F100

Hopefully, I posted this in the right section. I just picked up a 77 F100 that’s been sitting for awhile... honestly I’ve tried everything to get this engine going and I feel like I’m wasting money on all new parts for an engine I’m unsure will even run properly. Coolant is leaking from what it looks like the crank pulley. When I turn the crank pulley the cam lobes do not move at all and I hear air rushing out of somewhere but anyways I’m getting off topic. I want to swap the 351m/400 out for something else.. I want to keep my C6 transmission. Any ideas???
 
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Old 09-05-2018, 04:43 PM
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Welcome to FTE.

I read your other thread about the starter problems.

I am sensing this is your first run at these problems and an engine swap?

OK, crank pulley. As you look at the engine, the lowest pulley:



Is that where you have water coming out, from that lowest pulley area? You say the cam lobes, or cam, is not turning. OK, how are you able to see the cam? Did you pull the intake manifold? What state of assembly is the engine at this point? With the manifold off and the crank turning, you would hear air going in and out of intake ports on those cylinders with the intake valves open.

The C6 transmission will bolt only to the 351m/400, or, depending on variations, to a 385 series engine. (429/460)

Which do you have, the 400 or the 351m?
 
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Old 09-05-2018, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 85e150six4mtod
Welcome to FTE.

I read your other thread about the starter problems.

I am sensing this is your first run at these problems and an engine swap?

OK, crank pulley. As you look at the engine, the lowest pulley:

Yes, this is my first classic! My daily is a 2006 mustang GT so this truck has me extremely confused but I refuse to call a mechanic I want to learn and avoid the crazy labor charges. I’ve never swapped an engine in anything before. A lot of things are missing from the engine on my truck... wires every where, vacuum hoses missing, some bolts don’t even belong on the truck. So I thought maybe it was best to start looking for a new engine.
 
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Old 09-05-2018, 04:56 PM
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Well, the 400 can be made into a real fire breather with a few simple parts. But first, do you know if it is a 351m or 400? You will need an extra part to make it a fire breather if it's a 351M. Also, a basic manual for that vehicle, like than Haynes or other fine brand will help you determine what you should be looking at vs. what's there. Is the manifold or other major component off the engine? How did you see that cam?
 
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Old 09-05-2018, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 85e150six4mtod
Welcome to FTE.

I read your other thread about the starter problems.

I am sensing this is your first run at these problems and an engine swap?

OK, crank pulley. As you look at the engine, the lowest pulley:



Is that where you have water coming out, from that lowest pulley area? You say the cam lobes, or cam, is not turning. OK, how are you able to see the cam? Did you pull the intake manifold? What state of assembly is the engine at this point? With the manifold off and the crank turning, you would hear air going in and out of intake ports on those cylinders with the intake valves open.

The C6 transmission will bolt only to the 351m/400, or, depending on variations, to a 385 series engine. (429/460)

Which do you have, the 400 or the 351m?
yes, coolant is coming from the lowest pulley. I should have mentioned before that the head gaskets were blown on this truck I put new head gaskets on. A pool of coolant was sitting on top of the Pistons. I took the mechanical fuel pump out and turnt the crank pulley over. The cam was not moving. The engine will run but only with my foot on the gas if I take my foot off the gas it dies. I need new power steering bolts so the only v belt on right now is the one going from the alternator to the crank pulley. It’s one huge mess but heyy I only paid 600 bucks.
 
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Old 09-05-2018, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 85e150six4mtod
Well, the 400 can be made into a real fire breather with a few simple parts. But first, do you know if it is a 351m or 400? You will need an extra part to make it a fire breather if it's a 351M. Also, a basic manual for that vehicle, like than Haynes or other fine brand will help you determine what you should be looking at vs. what's there. Is the manifold or other major component off the engine? How did you see that cam?
4th code on VIN is H. So I’m assuming it’s the 351m but when I took the intake manifold off the block says 400 on it.
 
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Old 09-05-2018, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Davon3598


yes, coolant is coming from the lowest pulley. I should have mentioned before that the head gaskets were blown on this truck I put new head gaskets on. A pool of coolant was sitting on top of the Pistons. I took the mechanical fuel pump out and turnt the crank pulley over. The cam was not moving. The engine will run but only with my foot on the gas if I take my foot off the gas it dies. I need new power steering bolts so the only v belt on right now is the one going from the alternator to the crank pulley. It’s one huge mess but heyy I only paid 600 bucks.
I'm not sure how an engine could run even for a moment with the cam not turning.

Are you sure the coolant isn't just coming out of a cracked water pump?

If it runs with your foot on the gas my first guess would be the vacuum lines to the carb... Probably the one from the carb to the distributor. Getting those lines sorted and then maybe rebuilding the carb would be my first step (though check the gas tank for rust too). Just guessing but, I'd think the coolant on top of the pistons was due to a poor seal on the head gaskets... you said they were blown right?

I'm new to these older engines too though (73 390 FE here), so I don't really know anything.
 
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Old 09-05-2018, 05:33 PM
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Also, take a bunch of pictures and post them.
 
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Old 09-05-2018, 05:37 PM
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Good points, don't sell yourself short. OP needs to get a manual of any type and sort out vacuum and wiring. It sounds like this thing is a runner. Being a 351M isn't great, but IMO it would be best to make a (better) runner out of it first. Once fuel, spark, ignition, other electrical is "fixed", then you have a decent starting point for an upgrade, or if OP insists, a complete swap.

Keep in mind that the swap to a different engine series, even to the 429/460 (385 series) engines will require far more running down of all of the above vs. correcting the existing engine. Not that a clean slate isn't a good thing to start with, but I would stick with it at this point.
 
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Old 09-05-2018, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by caravaggio2000
I'm not sure how an engine could run even for a moment with the cam not turning.

Are you sure the coolant isn't just coming out of a cracked water pump?

If it runs with your foot on the gas my first guess would be the vacuum lines to the carb... Probably the one from the carb to the distributor. Getting those lines sorted and then maybe rebuilding the carb would be my first step (though check the gas tank for rust too). Just guessing but, I'd think the coolant on top of the pistons was due to a poor seal on the head gaskets... you said they were blown right?

I'm new to these older engines too though (73 390 FE here), so I don't really know anything.
i could be wrong... maybe what I was looking at wasn’t even the cam but it Damnn sure looked like one haha. The vacuum on this truck is extremely messed up. The vacuum hose from my distributor goes to this screw in but on the intake manifold it doesn’t even go to my carb. Yess the old head gasket was bent at different ends of the gasket. I’m looking at my carb right now and I just realized gas is leaking at the base of the carb. Lucky you man! I wish I had a 390 FE! I wanted to supercharge my 400 but no supercharger manifold or anything exist from what I understand.
 
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Old 09-05-2018, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by 85e150six4mtod
Good points, don't sell yourself short. OP needs to get a manual of any type and sort out vacuum and wiring. It sounds like this thing is a runner. Being a 351M isn't great, but IMO it would be best to make a (better) runner out of it first. Once fuel, spark, ignition, other electrical is "fixed", then you have a decent starting point for an upgrade, or if OP insists, a complete swap.

Keep in mind that the swap to a different engine series, even to the 429/460 (385 series) engines will require far more running down of all of the above vs. correcting the existing engine. Not that a clean slate isn't a good thing to start with, but I would stick with it at this point.
I appreciate the help! I’m thinking about ordering a ford shop manual for the truck off of fordmanuals.com. Well you know better than I do so I’m going to continue trying to get this thing running. I’m going to upgrade my membership on this forum so I can post a lot of close up pictures. Honestly I just want this baby running before I go back to college in January.
 
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Old 09-05-2018, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Davon3598


i could be wrong... maybe what I was looking at wasn’t even the cam but it Damnn sure looked like one haha. The vacuum on this truck is extremely messed up. The vacuum hose from my distributor goes to this screw in but on the intake manifold it doesn’t even go to my carb. Yess the old head gasket was bent at different ends of the gasket. I’m looking at my carb right now and I just realized gas is leaking at the base of the carb. Lucky you man! I wish I had a 390 FE! I wanted to supercharge my 400 but no supercharger manifold or anything exist from what I understand.
Take pictures of where the fuel is coming out of the carb. Sounds like you need a rebuild. I just rebuilt my first one a few weekends ago and it's a piece of cake.

I'm not sure about your motor, but I'd definitely think the line off the vacuum advance on the distributor needs to hook up to the carb. Take pictures.

You might want to pull all the plugs and inspect them. Some might have gotten fouled up and need replacing.

Even if the whole thing is shot, I'd still go with rebuilding what you have, then adding whatever parts you want to add HP. If it is running at all right now, there probably isn't much that needs to be done.

Other than manuals, youtube can be your best friend once you know what to search. There are tons of walkthroughs for anything you want to do.

 
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Old 09-05-2018, 06:22 PM
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Also, I searched around and I do think there are supercharged 400 and 351's as well as turboed ones.

Here's a 351 on a dyno

 
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Old 09-05-2018, 07:13 PM
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The first arrow is pointing at the electronic choke but no wire is connected to the choke to power it. It’s no Where to be found.the second arrow is the vacuum hose to the choke and I have no idea where it goes.

My battery cables look terrible that will probably explain why I keep getting one click when I try and start the engine. The starter and starter solenoid are brand new.

This plug looks like something you would find in your household haha all I know is the wire comes from the ICM and idk what its supposed to connect too.

The arrows are pointing at the base of the carb where it’s leaking the carb has one spacer and two paper gaskets.

The fuel pump has a screw/nut thing that is supposed to keep the fuel in but mine doesn’t fit very well so I tighten as best as possible and fuel still leaks out. This is the outlet line.
 
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Old 09-05-2018, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by caravaggio2000
Also, I searched around and I do think there are supercharged 400 and 351's as well as turboed ones.

Here's a 351 on a dyno

https://youtu.be/nTeoB_P1uyQ
That's a 351w, not 351m. There are adapters to use 351c intake manifolds on the 351m/400, though those are usually used in conjunction with 351c 4bbl heads. But if those work with 351m/400 heads and there are supercharger intake manifolds for the 351c, then that could be a solution.
 


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