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1973 - 1979 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Dentsides Ford Truck

C6 to a ZF5--All the small stuff.

 
  #46  
Old 09-21-2018, 11:03 PM
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I'm back at it. I had to build the wooden stand AGAIN. Then I pulled it apart.



The pilot shaft was not easy to remove since the shafts were still in the rear section of the housing. I took dykes and cut off the large p.shaft bearing cage. They are tough but cut. Then I found that my bearing splitter/puller from H.F. was not large enough.



The one thing that no one mentioned is that there is a oil slinger with a rubber seal that will need to be r&r'd since the seal got damaged, will get damaged, if you try to remove the p.shaft with the working still in the case. The pisser is that to remove the counter shaft will mean dealing with the needle bearings on the reverse idler shaft, and I don't want to. I refuse to buy a full darn set of needle bearings just to get one. There has to be a way! I will most likely tear the new oil slinger seal during the re-install, unless I can move the counter shaft or the main shaft somehow, until the gears mesh and the p.shaft drops into place.




 
  #47  
Old 09-22-2018, 11:01 AM
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I'm wondering: in the #2 photo above, you can see the bearings and the cage has been removed from the pilot shaft bearing. The inner part of the bearing, the part that touches the actual shaft, is still there. If installation procedure is to heat a new bearing and drop in into place, then the reverse should be true. Why can I not heat that inner portion still on the shaft, and then simply tap it off with chisel or punch, tapping on the lip? Me thinks I'll give it a try.

Then, I'll demo the other bearing that the p.shaft sits on, and pull it with the puller. A bit of heat might help here too.
 
  #48  
Old 09-22-2018, 02:20 PM
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If heat doesn't work, take it somewhere there has a hydraulic press. Or go back to HF and grab the bench top hydraulic press for under $100. When heating the old bearing, try not to heat the shaft. I'm sure you know this already.
 
  #49  
Old 09-22-2018, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by SlikWillie View Post
If heat doesn't work, take it somewhere there has a hydraulic press. Or go back to HF and grab the bench top hydraulic press for under $100. When heating the old bearing, try not to heat the shaft. I'm sure you know this already.
Thanks, Willie. I'll heat it a bit with a little propane torch. It shouldn't need much. For installation directions say set the bearing in a 350* oven for 20 minutes. So, to get that remaining sleeve that hot, it shouldn't take much time. The shaft will heat a bit, but not to the point of causing warpage or heat damage; just warm up some. I may be able to grab it with the puller. We'll see.
 
  #50  
Old 09-23-2018, 11:16 PM
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Well, the heat did not work. I had to install the puller. I had to buy longer bolts for the part that clamps around the bearing.



It was tough to budge, but with a 1/2" drive ratchet, and holding the puller by hand, I torqued it and it popped off. I was surprised to see Timken USA stamped on the bottom of the old bearing. The Timken stamp told me that the trans has been rebuild before. That could be good; could be bad, depending.



The toyo bearing I just heated for 22 minutes in a 350* oven, as directed by the writer of the thread I linked to in the beginning of this thread. It dropped on but did not fall into place on the collar. I turned to get a hammer and the abs pipe to tap it down, but before I could it dropped right into place. I tapped a bit to seat it. Below you can see the abs pipe on the Toyo bearing.



While I was messing with the p.shaft, I noticed a blemish on surface that meets the seal. It was a duzzy. I could feel it with my nail, but, when I placed the new seal over it, I could not see a flashlight beam around the seal edge. Since the seal has two lips that touch the shaft, I figured it was the inner lip that had accumulated crud and corroded. I hope the outer lip with keep fluid internal. I cleaned the shaft and the blemish with 1k grit and wd40.



The second bearing I removed was fairly simple. I left the shaft vertical in the case to avoid dealing with the removal and separation of the shafts. The clamp fit a bit off due to the large gear in the way on the counter shaft, but it worked. As with the first bearing, I cut off the cage and removed the cage and bearings, then applied the collet to the remaining part of the bearing.



This second, smaller bearing was stamped Timken England. Tomorrow I'll see about changing the front seal, and the race in the case. I should also get to installing the new bearing. Oh, once the second, smaller bearing was removed, I noticed striations in the shaft, as though it had been clamped in a vise. Who would do that?




Dang it! Now that I look at the extent of the corrosion on the p.shaft where the seal lip rides, I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to replace the p.shaft. Ahhhhh!.
 
  #51  
Old 09-24-2018, 09:27 AM
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I think it was a good idea to change out the bearings. If you hadn't, you woulda wondered why something went wrong if it ever does - now you'll know why.

Not trying to give bad vibes, but not knowing something can sometimes eat at a person for a very long time!
 
  #52  
Old 09-24-2018, 01:32 PM
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Hey Aaron-71: Yes, you are right. Right now, seeing that corrosion on the p.shaft where the seal lips sits, has me worried that it will leak. I can see my new clutch soaked in ATF. I'm going to take it into a shop and see if they can put a repair sleeve on it. Man, this trans must have sat for a few years.

 
  #53  
Old 09-24-2018, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by F-250 restorer View Post
Hey Aaron-71: Yes, you are right. Right now, seeing that corrosion on the p.shaft where the seal lips sits, has me worried that it will leak. I can see my new clutch soaked in ATF. I'm going to take it into a shop and see if they can put a repair sleeve on it. Man, this trans must have sat for a few years.

Holy Moses that looks like a deep gouge! Not sure why, but that looks worse in your most recent photo than your first few.

How the heck would that even happen??? It's where the seal sits!
 
  #54  
Old 09-24-2018, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Aaron-71 View Post
Holy Moses that looks like a deep gouge! Not sure why, but that looks worse in your most recent photo than your first few.

How the heck would that even happen??? It's where the seal sits!
Yes, I can feel it with my finger nail, but with a new seal on the shaft, I can't see a light beneath the seal lip when I shine a flash light under it. I'm sure it would quickly wear out a seal. And then ... I found this:

Ha! I found the Timken has a regional sales office 3 miles from me. I'm on my wayt!!
 
  #55  
Old 09-24-2018, 06:48 PM
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After a bit of searching around and reading, I found that my shaft was 1.375 or 1 3/8" in diameter. I found a the correct size on ebay and cross ref''ed the # on rockauto. On RA I was able to check all the dimentions, so I bought it through them: National Part #99133. The piece on the left slips over the p.shaft, and the piece on the right is supposed to be used to drive the other piece into place. But the shaft is about 11 inches long and the sleeve goes near the bottom. So, I'll try to drill a hole in the top of the piece on the right.

I paid $24 shipped. A new p.shaft costs $200 plus shipping. So, I'm ahead of the game.

 
  #56  
Old 09-25-2018, 08:50 PM
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I'm having the dickens of a time trying to find a tool to pull the bearing races from the case. At this point, I'm going to put the case together and check the pre-load play. If that is in spec with the used races, then they stay.



Today I picked up some steel plate to duplicate the clutch master brace.
 
  #57  
Old 09-27-2018, 11:46 PM
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Well, I tried the sleeve to cover the corrosion on the pilot shaft where the seal lip rides. It was a waste of time. It tore up the seal. I had to pull the case off again and remove the sleeve. A $24 waste.



I put it back together and checked the pre-load, or play in the shaft, and came up with .003, or somewhere close since the Harbor Freight dial indicator is crap. Refund is looming large. Actually, the dial is not bad, but the mickey mouse holder is really bad. I think it was designed by a 10 year-old. So bad.



Then I changed the rear seal too.



I can't believe the front seal design. To change the front seal you have to pull the case off the trans!! Who thought of that? Probably the same person that thought an internal slave cylinder would be a good idea. Anyway, the trans is now ready to go in, with a new slave bolted in. I oredered both a Luk and a SKF slave cylinder/throw out bearing, and both had a plastic case under the bearing---cheap cheap cheap ***. For a beefy, burly trans, it sure is hard to find reliable parts!!!!!!!!!

Below is the repair sleeve on the pilot shaft.



Below is a shot of how I installed it. I tapped the tube until it was seated. Too bad it turned the seal inside out.

 
  #58  
Old 09-28-2018, 09:14 AM
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It sure seems like if there is a problem that can be had, you had it. Good job sticking with it to the end.
 
  #59  
Old 09-28-2018, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by SlikWillie View Post
It sure seems like if there is a problem that can be had, you had it. Good job sticking with it to the end.
2X - hang in there!
 
  #60  
Old 09-28-2018, 10:21 AM
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Thanks guys. It is ready to go in now. After having it apart for so long it seems strange putting new shiny parts on it. I hope that front seal works and prevents a leak.

Actually, I checked the free play on the main shaft, or tapered bearing pre-load, as they call it. The manual says specs are between .00079 and .00434. (Are you kidding me? .00079? My dial indicator won't even measure that fine.) Anyway, I found I had zero play. That didn't bother me until I went back and re-read the how-to article https://www.oilburners.net/threads/z...rebuild.62490/
Because of the different rates of expansion between the steel gears and shafts, and the aluminum case, the article says that getting the pre-load in the above rage is critical to longevity of the trans. That means that today pull the case once more. I am going to pull the main shaft race, remove the shim behind it, install the new race that came with the new bearing, and then throw the case back together with two bolts, and measure the pre-load once more. Hopefully that will get the pre-load (free play of the shaft) within the factory range.

Thinking back over the project, I'm surprised that using a new bearing on a used race did not produce some play. I thought that the used race would have been worn a thousandth or so? But, since the Koyo bearing and Koyo race are designed to be together, I'm hoping that having them as a pair will produce the required specs.

I don't have a puller to remove the race, and don't want to wait 6 days to get one mailed to me, so today I am going to make a removal tool.



To anyone doing this: There is an oil baffle that sits beneath the race. It is that flat ring you see that prevents you from getting anything under the race to remove it. You have cut the oil baffle, or tap it down, out of the way, to get the puller arms in there. I just take a pair of tin snips and make a relief cut here and there so I can get in there by bending the ring out of the way. There is a new ring supplied with the gasket set, but don't put it in place below the race when you first re-install the race. You have to measure the play before you install it. Otherwise, if you have to pull the race again to add or remove shims, you'll have to destroy the new baffle ring. Get the free play or pre-load correct before putting it in. Measure the thickness of the ring, and subtract that thickness from the amount of play you have, and that will give you the actual amount of play. Good luck.
 

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