6.0l transmission cooler and Derale Thermostat REDO of the REDO DONE! ;)
#16
Ok, so this whole temperature rating issue has been well a kick in the nuts. I wonder what the temperature rating of the average transmission hose we typically grab when doing the 6.0 cooler? I highly doubt it’s rated at 350* because finding a tranny hose with that kind of rating seems to be a specialty item. I tried to find the temperature rating of the NAPA H1706 I just removed to redo this project …nobody has that information. I’ve run that hose for 25K since doing this project the first time and that was before the transmission rebuild…so stock transmission and torque converter. Are the temperatures suggested above ONLY for a stock transmission and torque converter? My transmission was rebuilt with a triple disc torque converter and Tugger hd2 shift kit am I still going to see the temperatures suggested above? I’m NOT suggesting that Y2K or Mark are providing bad information or anything of the sort! I’m asking to learn and hopefully help anyone else that may have used subpar hoses.
Here’s some specifics on these hoses and fittings. It looks like the fittings CAN be reused if you’re very careful.
Here’s some specifics on these hoses and fittings. It looks like the fittings CAN be reused if you’re very careful.
#17
Been using push loks for years. Started with the veggie system in 2012. Anyway, i would slice the ends, peel it back and remove hose..install new piece since old hose would be hard/dry/cracking. As for installing new hose, id hit the nipple of the pushlok with a tab of grease then push hose on over..bingo bango...
*****as for temps from 6.0 xooler, were only installing a foot or 2 from the exit side of raditor. ...but..its apples to carrots though, as for temps comparison, my coolants sensor is plumbed into the block. Operating temp, shes at 230*ish, towingbup hill will peak 250*ish. Reading at WP, 200*ish
*****as for temps from 6.0 xooler, were only installing a foot or 2 from the exit side of raditor. ...but..its apples to carrots though, as for temps comparison, my coolants sensor is plumbed into the block. Operating temp, shes at 230*ish, towingbup hill will peak 250*ish. Reading at WP, 200*ish
#18
The irony inherent in your thread is that by sharing your redo on FTE, the collective experience and peer review here may inspire you to redo your redo, but that is exactly your point. Better to redo your redo in the comfort of your own driveway surrounded by all of your own tools... rather than on the side of the road in another state subject to whatever parts, tools, or overpriced help you can scrounge in a pinch.
Once the transmission fluid passes through the OTW cooler, the high temperatures we are worried about from the torque converter have been substantially knocked down. Water is a more efficient heat transfer medium than air, so the efficacy of an OTW transmission cooler to ameliorate the peak temps imposed by the tortuous turns inside a torque converter should not be under estimated. That was Ford's mistake back in 1996 or 97, whenever the decision was made to eliminate the OTW transmission cooler for the then upcoming Super Duty. It didn't take long for the consequences of that mistake to reveal themselves once these trucks were in the hands of consumers.
Something else to consider: If 200F degree radiator water can actually COOL transmission fluid, that speaks volumes for how hot transmission fluid can get.
Anyone with an early 99 through early 2000 who still doesn't have an OTW cooler might want to consider one. But for the majority of folks who do already have one, by the time the fluid leaves the OTW cooler and is headed toward the original oil to air (OTA) cooler, or the 6.0L style replacement OTA cooler, that fluid is already substantially cooler than the 300 degrees it may have once been prior to being cooled by the OTW cooler. So essentially, the typical 6.0L cooler installation isn't the issue with these hoses. The concern here in this case revolves around your report that you removed "90%" of your metal lines. That sounds like you removed a substantial part of the line between your transmission and your first cooler, the OTW one. And that is where you might want to consider a "redo".
The thermal load on your Parker lines might also stack from outside the line, as the line passes in near proximity to the turbo down pipe, which could present another potential reason to consider metal lines until you get to the front cover of the engine.
Another potential concern on your line routing, unrelated to temperature, is the location of your external filter for the transmission fluid. The filter appears to be cable tied outboard of your passenger frame rail. This puts the filter directly in line with the front passenger tire. In the event that tire throws a tread, the tread flap can whack the filter, separating it from the lines, and within the couple of minutes it might take to safely change lanes on a four lane freeway with the tire tread flailing around inside your wheel well until you can get stopped on the side of the road, you may have lost 2 gallons of transmission fluid, at a flow rate of one gallon per minute. Now a flat tire problem has compounded into a transmission problem.
I have had a tire failure that wrecked brake lines, the fender liner, the running board, the front air dam, and the sheetmetal fender itself. I was in lane # 2, and bang, blow out, thunk, thunk, thunk, thunk as the tire flap flipped around, wrecking havoc on every rotation. One cannot stop in the middle of the freeway, so I had to keep allowing the tire tread to flap around and do more damage until people whizzing by would let me change lanes to get to the side of the road. It is not fun to hear those thunks, knowing that with each hit, more damage is being done.
Ford mounts the external transmission filter for the 05-07 models in the same general area as you chose, but Ford positions the filter inboard the frame rail. I have the same filter as you have, and I mounted that filter inboard of the frame rail in the same area that Ford did, and protected it further with an anti bash plate. Something else to consider, should you decide to redo your redo.
#19
I don't think anyone is trying to bust your b a l l s. Your write up style is awesome. Your topic title and concept is brilliantly appropriate for the audience of readers here: that being a "REDO", because by this age all of us have made modifications and repairs that we have thought about redoing. In another recent thread, more than one person quoted the adage: You can do it right. Or you can do it again.
The irony inherent in your thread is that by sharing your redo on FTE, the collective experience and peer review here may inspire you to redo your redo, but that is exactly your point. Better to redo your redo in the comfort of your own driveway surrounded by all of your own tools... rather than on the side of the road in another state subject to whatever parts, tools, or overpriced help you can scrounge in a pinch.
The average person doing the 6.0 cooler does not "remove 90% of the metal transmission lines". In fact, most folks report not even touching the factory transmission line that outputs the hottest fluid from the torque converter to the oil to water (OTW) cooler in the bottom of the radiator. All the 2001-2003 Super Duties had this OTW cooler installed at the factory. Most 2000 Super Duties made after March of 2000 also had this OTW cooler. And many of the 99-early 2000 Super Duty owners had the TSB performed which was issued at the time to retrofit a radiator with the OTW cooler, along with new transmission cooling lines that plumbed this cooler first in line.
Once the transmission fluid passes through the OTW cooler, the high temperatures we are worried about from the torque converter have been substantially knocked down. Water is a more efficient heat transfer medium than air, so the efficacy of an OTW transmission cooler to ameliorate the peak temps imposed by the tortuous turns inside a torque converter should not be under estimated. That was Ford's mistake back in 1996 or 97, whenever the decision was made to eliminate the OTW transmission cooler for the then upcoming Super Duty. It didn't take long for the consequences of that mistake to reveal themselves once these trucks were in the hands of consumers.
Something else to consider: If 200F degree radiator water can actually COOL transmission fluid, that speaks volumes for how hot transmission fluid can get.
Anyone with an early 99 through early 2000 who still doesn't have an OTW cooler might want to consider one. But for the majority of folks who do already have one, by the time the fluid leaves the OTW cooler and is headed toward the original oil to air (OTA) cooler, or the 6.0L style replacement OTA cooler, that fluid is already substantially cooler than the 300 degrees it may have once been prior to being cooled by the OTW cooler. So essentially, the typical 6.0L cooler installation isn't the issue with these hoses. The concern here in this case revolves around your report that you removed "90%" of your metal lines. That sounds like you removed a substantial part of the line between your transmission and your first cooler, the OTW one. And that is where you might want to consider a "redo".
Ford has transmission lines available as service parts, and it is highly probable that Ford's lines are rated to reliably withstand the temperature extremes Ford found in testing. Mark did done some of that testing, towing trailers with Super Duties. You read what he reported.
Your upgraded torque converter suggests that your torque converter should last longer before failure. Does it also mean that the fluid temperature rise will be any less as the fluid performs the "work" of fluid drive? Or does it mean that the equipment will not fail and fatigue as quickly from the heat. If the latter, then despite having a better built, longer lasting transmission that is less vulnerable to the discs getting burnt and the cover ballooning from heat, the fluid is still getting worked, and therefore is still getting hot. The only way to know exactly how hot is to plumb a sending unit on the output line of the transmission, before the first cooler. Since you already have Parker PushLOK lines installed, it is much easier for you to cut and splice in a sending unit block so that you can see how high your TC output temps get for your particular transmission and loads.
I initially typed reaching up to "300F+" in my earlier post, but then worried you might discount it as my seeing "windmills" on a hill somewhere, so I changed the number to something just under 300, to convey the concern without coming across as over the top. I also considered that average daily driving duties doesn't push the TFT to those extremes. But the road to reliability requires considering the possible extremes, and that was exactly what Mark did professionally. And with your own stated report of towing a 9K trailer up an 8% grade in 90F+ ambients demonstrates that you might find yourself in extreme territory on the occasion where you might have to back that trailer up a hill, when there is no cooling airflow to your big 6.0L cooler since you are going in reverse, and the temperatures are stacking by the minute.
The thermal load on your Parker lines might also stack from outside the line, as the line passes in near proximity to the turbo down pipe, which could present another potential reason to consider metal lines until you get to the front cover of the engine.
Another potential concern on your line routing, unrelated to temperature, is the location of your external filter for the transmission fluid. The filter appears to be cable tied outboard of your passenger frame rail. This puts the filter directly in line with the front passenger tire. In the event that tire throws a tread, the tread flap can whack the filter, separating it from the lines, and within the couple of minutes it might take to safely change lanes on a four lane freeway with the tire tread flailing around inside your wheel well until you can get stopped on the side of the road, you may have lost 2 gallons of transmission fluid, at a flow rate of one gallon per minute. Now a flat tire problem has compounded into a transmission problem.
I have had a tire failure that wrecked brake lines, the fender liner, the running board, the front air dam, and the sheetmetal fender itself. I was in lane # 2, and bang, blow out, thunk, thunk, thunk, thunk as the tire flap flipped around, wrecking havoc on every rotation. One cannot stop in the middle of the freeway, so I had to keep allowing the tire tread to flap around and do more damage until people whizzing by would let me change lanes to get to the side of the road. It is not fun to hear those thunks, knowing that with each hit, more damage is being done.
Ford mounts the external transmission filter for the 05-07 models in the same general area as you chose, but Ford positions the filter inboard the frame rail. I have the same filter as you have, and I mounted that filter inboard of the frame rail in the same area that Ford did, and protected it further with an anti bash plate. Something else to consider, should you decide to redo your redo.
The irony inherent in your thread is that by sharing your redo on FTE, the collective experience and peer review here may inspire you to redo your redo, but that is exactly your point. Better to redo your redo in the comfort of your own driveway surrounded by all of your own tools... rather than on the side of the road in another state subject to whatever parts, tools, or overpriced help you can scrounge in a pinch.
The average person doing the 6.0 cooler does not "remove 90% of the metal transmission lines". In fact, most folks report not even touching the factory transmission line that outputs the hottest fluid from the torque converter to the oil to water (OTW) cooler in the bottom of the radiator. All the 2001-2003 Super Duties had this OTW cooler installed at the factory. Most 2000 Super Duties made after March of 2000 also had this OTW cooler. And many of the 99-early 2000 Super Duty owners had the TSB performed which was issued at the time to retrofit a radiator with the OTW cooler, along with new transmission cooling lines that plumbed this cooler first in line.
Once the transmission fluid passes through the OTW cooler, the high temperatures we are worried about from the torque converter have been substantially knocked down. Water is a more efficient heat transfer medium than air, so the efficacy of an OTW transmission cooler to ameliorate the peak temps imposed by the tortuous turns inside a torque converter should not be under estimated. That was Ford's mistake back in 1996 or 97, whenever the decision was made to eliminate the OTW transmission cooler for the then upcoming Super Duty. It didn't take long for the consequences of that mistake to reveal themselves once these trucks were in the hands of consumers.
Something else to consider: If 200F degree radiator water can actually COOL transmission fluid, that speaks volumes for how hot transmission fluid can get.
Anyone with an early 99 through early 2000 who still doesn't have an OTW cooler might want to consider one. But for the majority of folks who do already have one, by the time the fluid leaves the OTW cooler and is headed toward the original oil to air (OTA) cooler, or the 6.0L style replacement OTA cooler, that fluid is already substantially cooler than the 300 degrees it may have once been prior to being cooled by the OTW cooler. So essentially, the typical 6.0L cooler installation isn't the issue with these hoses. The concern here in this case revolves around your report that you removed "90%" of your metal lines. That sounds like you removed a substantial part of the line between your transmission and your first cooler, the OTW one. And that is where you might want to consider a "redo".
Ford has transmission lines available as service parts, and it is highly probable that Ford's lines are rated to reliably withstand the temperature extremes Ford found in testing. Mark did done some of that testing, towing trailers with Super Duties. You read what he reported.
Your upgraded torque converter suggests that your torque converter should last longer before failure. Does it also mean that the fluid temperature rise will be any less as the fluid performs the "work" of fluid drive? Or does it mean that the equipment will not fail and fatigue as quickly from the heat. If the latter, then despite having a better built, longer lasting transmission that is less vulnerable to the discs getting burnt and the cover ballooning from heat, the fluid is still getting worked, and therefore is still getting hot. The only way to know exactly how hot is to plumb a sending unit on the output line of the transmission, before the first cooler. Since you already have Parker PushLOK lines installed, it is much easier for you to cut and splice in a sending unit block so that you can see how high your TC output temps get for your particular transmission and loads.
I initially typed reaching up to "300F+" in my earlier post, but then worried you might discount it as my seeing "windmills" on a hill somewhere, so I changed the number to something just under 300, to convey the concern without coming across as over the top. I also considered that average daily driving duties doesn't push the TFT to those extremes. But the road to reliability requires considering the possible extremes, and that was exactly what Mark did professionally. And with your own stated report of towing a 9K trailer up an 8% grade in 90F+ ambients demonstrates that you might find yourself in extreme territory on the occasion where you might have to back that trailer up a hill, when there is no cooling airflow to your big 6.0L cooler since you are going in reverse, and the temperatures are stacking by the minute.
The thermal load on your Parker lines might also stack from outside the line, as the line passes in near proximity to the turbo down pipe, which could present another potential reason to consider metal lines until you get to the front cover of the engine.
Another potential concern on your line routing, unrelated to temperature, is the location of your external filter for the transmission fluid. The filter appears to be cable tied outboard of your passenger frame rail. This puts the filter directly in line with the front passenger tire. In the event that tire throws a tread, the tread flap can whack the filter, separating it from the lines, and within the couple of minutes it might take to safely change lanes on a four lane freeway with the tire tread flailing around inside your wheel well until you can get stopped on the side of the road, you may have lost 2 gallons of transmission fluid, at a flow rate of one gallon per minute. Now a flat tire problem has compounded into a transmission problem.
I have had a tire failure that wrecked brake lines, the fender liner, the running board, the front air dam, and the sheetmetal fender itself. I was in lane # 2, and bang, blow out, thunk, thunk, thunk, thunk as the tire flap flipped around, wrecking havoc on every rotation. One cannot stop in the middle of the freeway, so I had to keep allowing the tire tread to flap around and do more damage until people whizzing by would let me change lanes to get to the side of the road. It is not fun to hear those thunks, knowing that with each hit, more damage is being done.
Ford mounts the external transmission filter for the 05-07 models in the same general area as you chose, but Ford positions the filter inboard the frame rail. I have the same filter as you have, and I mounted that filter inboard of the frame rail in the same area that Ford did, and protected it further with an anti bash plate. Something else to consider, should you decide to redo your redo.
#20
#21
Yes, they CAN be re-used, but that little qualifier of "if you're very careful" can be a real stinker. I've had to replace a fitting because I nicked the barb when changing the hose. It's not easy to use a sharp blade to cut through the casing and hose without nicking the edge of a barb. It CAN be done, but it's not easy. The solder gun or wood burner tip technique removes the larger part of that potential complication.
Given Timmy's experience, perhaps I just am not practiced enough (nor do I want to be practiced enough) to get good at it. There are some things I just don't want to ever be good at.
#22
Trust me Pete, i didnt want to have the knotch under my belt as well. It got to the point, every 6mon i was replacing the hoses. Even with 300psi or r39..etc srill saw heat soak from engine. Maybe i just got lucky... I learned my lesson this time around(d2 delivery) and had braided lines made with AN fittings
#23
Yes, you will. Neither a triple disc torque converter nor a shift kit will lower these temperatures. The high temperatures are created when the torque converter is unlocked. All three discs are just along for the ride then, and the shift kit isn't doing anything because the trans isn't shifting.
#24
So this has turned into a PITA! FIRST- I got hoses that didn’t have a high enough temperature rating for the application. So I got replacement hoses yesterday and started the project this morning. Severe weather is forecasted so I got busy
swapping hoses a fittings. I even removed the Presslok fittings on the left side to ensure they were sealed. It only took a couple minutes and as my GF tells me, a couple minutes is not a long time. I gotta keep a sense of humor!
Got the new hoses and fittings installed in the thermostat.
New hoses are rated for 302* (Blue hose). You can physically feel the differences in the new hoses.
swapping hoses a fittings. I even removed the Presslok fittings on the left side to ensure they were sealed. It only took a couple minutes and as my GF tells me, a couple minutes is not a long time. I gotta keep a sense of humor!
Got the new hoses and fittings installed in the thermostat.
New hoses are rated for 302* (Blue hose). You can physically feel the differences in the new hoses.
#25
So I got everything reinstalled and started the truck to check for leaks. Damn, I cracked the thermostat reinstalling the fittings and had to start it over! .
Well, because of the weather and forecast of large hail, I NEED to be able to move the truck. I ran to Lowe’s and picked up 2 black pipe connectors to connect the hoses where the thermostat had been installed. I have not decided if I will re-install a new thermostat or leave this. Lowes did not have a brass coupler so I stuck with the black pipe connectors.
Sure enough, a small crack.
#26
This is how I connected the 2 different size hoses 1/2” to 3/8”… remember I used 1/2” male NPT fittings to go into the thermostat, which made connecting the hoses easy … cough cough so to speak. I started the truck and no leaks!
So at least now I can move the truck if I need to pull it in if we do get severe weather.
So at least now I can move the truck if I need to pull it in if we do get severe weather.
#28
Ok, a couple questions… If I decide to not replace thermostat can I leave the black pipe connectors in place or should I order Brass couplers? Do I need the thermostat?
Unfortunately, Lowe’s did not have Brass today or I would have used it. Thanks to everyone that provided information to make sure this was done right. And thank you for the Reps.
Unfortunately, Lowe’s did not have Brass today or I would have used it. Thanks to everyone that provided information to make sure this was done right. And thank you for the Reps.
#29
#30