*** home now***** random zf6 thread. Stuck in Sheridan Wyoming looking for repair shop
#61
07-19-2018, 07:02 PM
Fleet Owner
Brandon, I was not implying that you had not changed the fluid often enough and I apologize if my message was percieved as so. I was saying that if you decide to choose the NAPA Dexron III/Mercon that Cleatus12r has shown us, then the fluid interval would need to be more often than a similar synthetic.
#62
07-19-2018, 07:09 PM
Brandon, I was not implying that you had not changed the fluid often enough and I apologize if my message was percieved as so. I was saying that if you decide to choose the NAPA Dexron III/Mercon that Cleatus12r has shown us, then the fluid interval would need to be more often than a similar synthetic.
#63
07-19-2018, 09:56 PM
Fleet Owner
Brandon, it has been raining here at the campsite, so my wife and I have been have a nice evening in with cold beer and hot food.
I have been doing a bit of research and sought some sage advice. I also downloaded the owners manual to read anything and everything I could regarding the fluid to be used as Cleatus12r indicated above.
This is only information I have gathered in an effort to help you make up your mind on your fluid choices and to educate myself on the subject as well in order to try and avoid a serious repair like this on the road.
1. Dexron III and Mercon are virtually the same fluid and that is why the names are paired together so often. GM had Dexron III and Ford had Mercon, despite the formulas being nearly identical.
2. Mercon and Mercon V are not the same and should NOT be mixed in applications. Use the fluid that the vehicle calls for, not one that exceeds or is suitable for. For example, the manual for our ZF6 calls for Mercon, not Mercon V and they should not be mixed. This is in bold print several times in the manual.
3. Mercon V is NOT a fancier version of Mercon. It is a different formula and should be treated as such.
4. Mercon is no longer available for purchase through MotorCraft, but is available through other oil manufacturers/retailers.
5. I have listed a couple below that still satisfy the need for Dexron III/Mercon ATF.
- NAPA Premium Performance Dexron III/Mercon - https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NO_75200
- Valvoline DEX/MERC ATF - https://www.valvoline.com/our-produc...s/dex-merc-atf
- Mobil ATF D/M - https://mobiloil.com/en/automatic-tr...-fluid/d-m-atf
6. Anything labeled "multi-vehicle" is going to be bad too and not what you are looking to put in the ZF6.
I can only assume that All Stars Transmissions recommended synthetic ATF because it will still allow the new transmission to run for a very long time and synthetic ATF is much easier to find. To the common person that simply wants to have the new transmission put in and drive it, that answer works just fine. But, for individuals like you, I and many others on here, we like to learn from our mistakes, even if we didn't know we were making them.
Do as you wish with the information above, but I thought you and maybe some others would be interested in reading it.
It appears I also have some decisions to make on my fluid choices in the very near future.
I have been doing a bit of research and sought some sage advice. I also downloaded the owners manual to read anything and everything I could regarding the fluid to be used as Cleatus12r indicated above.
This is only information I have gathered in an effort to help you make up your mind on your fluid choices and to educate myself on the subject as well in order to try and avoid a serious repair like this on the road.
1. Dexron III and Mercon are virtually the same fluid and that is why the names are paired together so often. GM had Dexron III and Ford had Mercon, despite the formulas being nearly identical.
2. Mercon and Mercon V are not the same and should NOT be mixed in applications. Use the fluid that the vehicle calls for, not one that exceeds or is suitable for. For example, the manual for our ZF6 calls for Mercon, not Mercon V and they should not be mixed. This is in bold print several times in the manual.
3. Mercon V is NOT a fancier version of Mercon. It is a different formula and should be treated as such.
4. Mercon is no longer available for purchase through MotorCraft, but is available through other oil manufacturers/retailers.
5. I have listed a couple below that still satisfy the need for Dexron III/Mercon ATF.
- NAPA Premium Performance Dexron III/Mercon - https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NO_75200
- Valvoline DEX/MERC ATF - https://www.valvoline.com/our-produc...s/dex-merc-atf
- Mobil ATF D/M - https://mobiloil.com/en/automatic-tr...-fluid/d-m-atf
6. Anything labeled "multi-vehicle" is going to be bad too and not what you are looking to put in the ZF6.
I can only assume that All Stars Transmissions recommended synthetic ATF because it will still allow the new transmission to run for a very long time and synthetic ATF is much easier to find. To the common person that simply wants to have the new transmission put in and drive it, that answer works just fine. But, for individuals like you, I and many others on here, we like to learn from our mistakes, even if we didn't know we were making them.
Do as you wish with the information above, but I thought you and maybe some others would be interested in reading it.
It appears I also have some decisions to make on my fluid choices in the very near future.
#64
07-19-2018, 10:55 PM
#65
07-19-2018, 11:14 PM
#66
07-20-2018, 07:26 AM
Hotshot
This is what I have in my ZF6 and it has been good so far.
Redline MTL specs
Redline MTL
Before that I had Amsoil ATF synthetic and it did OK too. The Redline reduced gear roll over to almost nothing.
Redline MTL specs
Redline MTL
Before that I had Amsoil ATF synthetic and it did OK too. The Redline reduced gear roll over to almost nothing.
#67
07-20-2018, 07:31 AM
Hotshot
Brandon, it has been raining here at the campsite, so my wife and I have been have a nice evening in with cold beer and hot food.
I have been doing a bit of research and sought some sage advice. I also downloaded the owners manual to read anything and everything I could regarding the fluid to be used as Cleatus12r indicated above.
This is only information I have gathered in an effort to help you make up your mind on your fluid choices and to educate myself on the subject as well in order to try and avoid a serious repair like this on the road.
1. Dexron III and Mercon are virtually the same fluid and that is why the names are paired together so often. GM had Dexron III and Ford had Mercon, despite the formulas being nearly identical.
2. Mercon and Mercon V are not the same and should NOT be mixed in applications. Use the fluid that the vehicle calls for, not one that exceeds or is suitable for. For example, the manual for our ZF6 calls for Mercon, not Mercon V and they should not be mixed. This is in bold print several times in the manual.
3. Mercon V is NOT a fancier version of Mercon. It is a different formula and should be treated as such.
4. Mercon is no longer available for purchase through MotorCraft, but is available through other oil manufacturers/retailers.
5. I have listed a couple below that still satisfy the need for Dexron III/Mercon ATF.
- NAPA Premium Performance Dexron III/Mercon - https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NO_75200
- Valvoline DEX/MERC ATF - https://www.valvoline.com/our-produc...s/dex-merc-atf
- Mobil ATF D/M - https://mobiloil.com/en/automatic-tr...-fluid/d-m-atf
6. Anything labeled "multi-vehicle" is going to be bad too and not what you are looking to put in the ZF6.
I can only assume that All Stars Transmissions recommended synthetic ATF because it will still allow the new transmission to run for a very long time and synthetic ATF is much easier to find. To the common person that simply wants to have the new transmission put in and drive it, that answer works just fine. But, for individuals like you, I and many others on here, we like to learn from our mistakes, even if we didn't know we were making them.
Do as you wish with the information above, but I thought you and maybe some others would be interested in reading it.
It appears I also have some decisions to make on my fluid choices in the very near future.
I have been doing a bit of research and sought some sage advice. I also downloaded the owners manual to read anything and everything I could regarding the fluid to be used as Cleatus12r indicated above.
This is only information I have gathered in an effort to help you make up your mind on your fluid choices and to educate myself on the subject as well in order to try and avoid a serious repair like this on the road.
1. Dexron III and Mercon are virtually the same fluid and that is why the names are paired together so often. GM had Dexron III and Ford had Mercon, despite the formulas being nearly identical.
2. Mercon and Mercon V are not the same and should NOT be mixed in applications. Use the fluid that the vehicle calls for, not one that exceeds or is suitable for. For example, the manual for our ZF6 calls for Mercon, not Mercon V and they should not be mixed. This is in bold print several times in the manual.
3. Mercon V is NOT a fancier version of Mercon. It is a different formula and should be treated as such.
4. Mercon is no longer available for purchase through MotorCraft, but is available through other oil manufacturers/retailers.
5. I have listed a couple below that still satisfy the need for Dexron III/Mercon ATF.
- NAPA Premium Performance Dexron III/Mercon - https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NO_75200
- Valvoline DEX/MERC ATF - https://www.valvoline.com/our-produc...s/dex-merc-atf
- Mobil ATF D/M - https://mobiloil.com/en/automatic-tr...-fluid/d-m-atf
6. Anything labeled "multi-vehicle" is going to be bad too and not what you are looking to put in the ZF6.
I can only assume that All Stars Transmissions recommended synthetic ATF because it will still allow the new transmission to run for a very long time and synthetic ATF is much easier to find. To the common person that simply wants to have the new transmission put in and drive it, that answer works just fine. But, for individuals like you, I and many others on here, we like to learn from our mistakes, even if we didn't know we were making them.
Do as you wish with the information above, but I thought you and maybe some others would be interested in reading it.
It appears I also have some decisions to make on my fluid choices in the very near future.
#68
07-20-2018, 10:16 AM
Postmaster
Regarding the fluid, make sure you KNOW what they used and maybe get a picture of the bottle...that way you can buy exactly the same stuff and don't have to worry about mixing it. :drinks: I need a flush this fall and I'm thinking about switching to the Triax ATF, since their oil has been working so well.
#70
07-20-2018, 01:57 PM
I'm glad you got a kick out of that. I am, however, completely serious. You should see the amount of shop space that I have wasted with nothing more than oil (CJ-4, good ATF, Schaeffers products, et.al.) for when SHTF. This winter I'm going to spend a lot of time and money building a faraday cage for spare PCMs, IDMs, and any other electronic modules that I can scrounge up before then.
#71
07-20-2018, 02:28 PM
Just left Billings in a borrowed truck with the used transmission Cleatus found. Heading to the shop and they are going to try and get it in today assuming everything looks okay looking in the pto cover
If this works I'll get the reman rerouted back home.
It shipped out yesterday and the trucker that picked it up said it should be here Monday but when I checked the tracking this morning it says Thursday ......
If this works I'll get the reman rerouted back home.
It shipped out yesterday and the trucker that picked it up said it should be here Monday but when I checked the tracking this morning it says Thursday ......
#73
07-20-2018, 03:28 PM
Hotshot
I'm glad you got a kick out of that. I am, however, completely serious. You should see the amount of shop space that I have wasted with nothing more than oil (CJ-4, good ATF, Schaeffers products, et.al.) for when SHTF. This winter I'm going to spend a lot of time and money building a faraday cage for spare PCMs, IDMs, and any other electronic modules that I can scrounge up before then.
#74
07-20-2018, 04:28 PM
Lead Driver
#75
07-20-2018, 04:30 PM
Fleet Owner
Brandon, glad to see you are getting things worked out and should be on the road soon. If you think about it, a catastrophic failure of this magnitude could have been a lot worse and taken a lot longer to get resolved. You will look back on this time and shake your head and smile soon enough.
Cleatus, we too have a stash for the end of days, but our stash is mostly MRE's, water jugs and bucket for our well and lots of guns and ammo. We have two way radios and other assorted things in a small faraday cage that we made, but nothing like you are planning to stockpile.
As for the fluid conversation, Brandon please let me know if I am steering this thread too far off course and I will make another with more accuracy to the title.
The owners manual states several times (4 actually, with 3 in bold) that MERCON V is not to be used in a transmission that calls for MERCON.
I know that the warning is specifically listing the automatic, but from what I gather the automatic and manual are synonymous when discussing fluids and what should be used in the manual.
In addition, the use of "synthetic" MERCON is only to be used in the 5 speed manual transmission according to page 226, and the ZF6 is only to use standard MERCON fluid which had a part number of XT-2-QDX.
The manual also goes on to state the following...
A lot has changed since the owners manual was published 18 years ago, but even at that time MERCON V was not recommended and specifically says that the MERCON V blend "may cause transmission damage." I know Mark K is/was an automatic transmission engineer, but I have seen him say time and time again "use what the manual calls for." Although, he does tend to lean toward Mobil products.
If the bottle or specification for the fluid says MERCON V suitable, meets/exceeds, etc... That is the wrong fluid according to the manual. The right fluid would only be the fluids that meet MERCON.
Examples of the specification are below...
MERCON V specification: Brand XXX fluid is recommended for automatic transmission that specify the use of DexronŽ-III; MERCONŽ and MERCONŽ V; Chrysler ATF +3 and +4 type fluids.
MERCON specification: Brand YYY fluid is recommended for use in applications requiring GM DEXRONŽ IIIH transmission fluid, Ford MERCONŽ transmission fluid and Allison C-4 transmission fluids.
After conferring with 3 mechanically experienced and knowledgeable (in my opinion anyway) individuals I have come to the decision that I will be flushing the fluid out of my ZF6 transmission with 3 full fluid cycles with 20 miles of running between. While the fluid is draining after being brought to a running temperature, I will let it drain over night, to ensure I get as much fluid out as possible. So, this will take a good deal of time regarding days, but minimal time to accomplish and do my best to ensure that all Amsoil Signature ATF and/or Redline fluids are out of the case and cooling system.
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Cleatus, we too have a stash for the end of days, but our stash is mostly MRE's, water jugs and bucket for our well and lots of guns and ammo. We have two way radios and other assorted things in a small faraday cage that we made, but nothing like you are planning to stockpile.
As for the fluid conversation, Brandon please let me know if I am steering this thread too far off course and I will make another with more accuracy to the title.
The owners manual states several times (4 actually, with 3 in bold) that MERCON V is not to be used in a transmission that calls for MERCON.
Originally Posted by 7.3 Power Stroke Owner's Manual
MERCON and MERCON V type fluids are not interchangeable.
DO NOT mix MERCON and MERCON V. Use of a transmission
fluid that indicates dual usage (MERCON and MERCON V) in
an automatic transmission application requiring MERCON may
cause transmission damage. Use of any fluid other than the
recommended fluid may cause transmission damage.
DO NOT mix MERCON and MERCON V. Use of a transmission
fluid that indicates dual usage (MERCON and MERCON V) in
an automatic transmission application requiring MERCON may
cause transmission damage. Use of any fluid other than the
recommended fluid may cause transmission damage.
In addition, the use of "synthetic" MERCON is only to be used in the 5 speed manual transmission according to page 226, and the ZF6 is only to use standard MERCON fluid which had a part number of XT-2-QDX.
The manual also goes on to state the following...
Originally Posted by 7.3 Power Stroke Owner's Manual
Some transmission fluids may be labeled as dual usage, such as
MERCON and MERCON V. These dual usage fluids are not to be used
in an automatic transmission that requires use of the MERCON type
fluid. However, these dual usage fluids may be used in transmissions that
require the MERCON V type fluid.
MERCON and MERCON V. These dual usage fluids are not to be used
in an automatic transmission that requires use of the MERCON type
fluid. However, these dual usage fluids may be used in transmissions that
require the MERCON V type fluid.
If the bottle or specification for the fluid says MERCON V suitable, meets/exceeds, etc... That is the wrong fluid according to the manual. The right fluid would only be the fluids that meet MERCON.
Examples of the specification are below...
MERCON V specification: Brand XXX fluid is recommended for automatic transmission that specify the use of DexronŽ-III; MERCONŽ and MERCONŽ V; Chrysler ATF +3 and +4 type fluids.
MERCON specification: Brand YYY fluid is recommended for use in applications requiring GM DEXRONŽ IIIH transmission fluid, Ford MERCONŽ transmission fluid and Allison C-4 transmission fluids.
After conferring with 3 mechanically experienced and knowledgeable (in my opinion anyway) individuals I have come to the decision that I will be flushing the fluid out of my ZF6 transmission with 3 full fluid cycles with 20 miles of running between. While the fluid is draining after being brought to a running temperature, I will let it drain over night, to ensure I get as much fluid out as possible. So, this will take a good deal of time regarding days, but minimal time to accomplish and do my best to ensure that all Amsoil Signature ATF and/or Redline fluids are out of the case and cooling system.
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