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Question for California 11.5 GVWR Owners

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  #1  
Old 07-13-2018, 02:42 PM
prometheus1351
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Question for California 11.5 GVWR Owners

Hey guys, I have a question for California people that have trucks with GVWR of 11,500 lbs...

Did you guys fill out a "Declaration of GVW/CGW" form when you purchased your truck? (DMV Form PDF)
Do you have CVRA stickers on your truck or keep them with you?

I'm curious if I'm one of the few to purchase an 11,500 GVWR configuration in California (as opposed to the de-rated 11,400 GVWR). From all my research it looks like I'm supposed to have filled this out and, since I bought my truck to pull a 10K toy hauler I should select weight code B which means I owe the state an EXTRA $447 per year on top of my almost $1,000 yearly registration fee... All for the privilege of pulling my trailer 4 or 5 times a year (maybe a little more). At the time of purchase I felt reasonably comfortable that the 11,500 vs 11,400 was no longer relevant in California. Now that I'm diving in to this again I'm worried I made a pretty costly mistake. Here's what I've learned:

According to the declaration form, all registered owners of commercial motor vehicles operating at 10,001 lbs or more GVW or CGW need to declare the weight it will be operated under. Pickup trucks w/ unladen weight of 8,001 AND a GVWR of 11,499 are excluded from this requirement.

So then people might say, "well you're not operating commercially so it shouldn't apply". I would agree but all trucks in California are considered commercial vehicles. I looked at the "Commercial Vehicles Vehicle Industry Registration Procedures" (DMV PDF). According to this, a "Pickup Truck" is what us normal folks would consider our trucks but only up to UVW 8,001 and GVWR less than 11,500. Since my truck is 11,500 it is therefore considered a "Motor Truck" defined as "a motor vehicle designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property".

The document then goes in to the Commercial Vehicle Registration Act (CVRA) which has to do with that first form I linked above. The CVRA applies to "Motor Trucks" but not "pickup trucks", therefore we would technically need CVRA weight decals and CVRA year stickers and have them displayed on our doors on the left and right side, in addition to the yearly fees based on the maximum weight we're carrying or towing.

So anyway, that's what I've learned. I'm curious to know more information from those of you that have dealt with this or have better knowledge on the subject.

I'd really like to know if the majority of people out there with 11.5K GVWR just ignored this all together or if anyone ever had any issues with the authorities as a result of not having a CVRA sticker or anything like that.

Thanks everyone.
 
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  #2  
Old 07-13-2018, 02:47 PM
Jason Kaiser
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Originally Posted by prometheus1351 View Post
Hey guys, I have a question for California people that have trucks with GVWR of 11,500 lbs...

Did you guys fill out a "Declaration of GVW/CGW" form when you purchased your truck? (DMV Form PDF)
Do you have CVRA stickers on your truck or keep them with you?

I'm curious if I'm one of the few to purchase an 11,500 GVWR configuration in California (as opposed to the de-rated 11,400 GVWR). From all my research it looks like I'm supposed to have filled this out and, since I bought my truck to pull a 10K toy hauler I should select weight code B which means I owe the state an EXTRA $447 per year on top of my almost $1,000 yearly registration fee... All for the privilege of pulling my trailer 4 or 5 times a year (maybe a little more). At the time of purchase I felt reasonably comfortable that the 11,500 vs 11,400 was no longer relevant in California. Now that I'm diving in to this again I'm worried I made a pretty costly mistake. Here's what I've learned:

According to the declaration form, all registered owners of commercial motor vehicles operating at 10,001 lbs or more GVW or CGW need to declare the weight it will be operated under. Pickup trucks w/ unladen weight of 8,001 AND a GVWR of 11,499 are excluded from this requirement.

So then people might say, "well you're not operating commercially so it shouldn't apply". I would agree but all trucks in California are considered commercial vehicles. I looked at the "Commercial Vehicles Vehicle Industry Registration Procedures" (DMV PDF). According to this, a "Pickup Truck" is what us normal folks would consider our trucks but only up to UVW 8,001 and GVWR less than 11,500. Since my truck is 11,500 it is therefore considered a "Motor Truck" defined as "a motor vehicle designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property".

The document then goes in to the Commercial Vehicle Registration Act (CVRA) which has to do with that first form I linked above. The CVRA applies to "Motor Trucks" but not "pickup trucks", therefore we would technically need CVRA weight decals and CVRA year stickers and have them displayed on our doors on the left and right side, in addition to the yearly fees based on the maximum weight we're carrying or towing.

So anyway, that's what I've learned. I'm curious to know more information from those of you that have dealt with this or have better knowledge on the subject.

I'd really like to know if the majority of people out there with 11.5K GVWR just ignored this all together or if anyone ever had any issues with the authorities as a result of not having a CVRA sticker or anything like that.

Thanks everyone.
i drive a semi cross country and most of the stickers on the doors are if the pick up is being used in a llc or busness, not for personal use, even ones pulling toy haulers or 5th wheels
 
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  #3  
Old 07-13-2018, 04:01 PM
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Lightbulb

A work-around is to order the 11,400 lb. GVWR option (option code 68L) for the 11,500 lb. F350 SRW. It’s a no-cost paper “downgrade”; the truck is otherwise the same.

HTH,
Jim / crewzer
 
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Old 07-13-2018, 04:04 PM
prometheus1351
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Originally Posted by SDcrewzer View Post
A work-around is to order the 11,400 lb. GVWR option. It’s a no-cost paper “downgrade”.

HTH,
Jim / crewzer
Unfortunately already bought a 350 with an 11.5K GVWR :|

Anyone know if it's possible to de-rate GVWR by 100 pounds after taking delivery?
 
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Old 07-13-2018, 04:49 PM
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I know lots of people in California that tow big gooseneck car haulers with Duallys. All with payloads over 11,500. None have the sticker.
 
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Old 07-13-2018, 06:37 PM
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What plates do you have on your ToyHauler?
if you have annual registration plates, then you pay a weight fee and don’t need to do anything.
if your plates are permenant plates, then fill it out.
my truck has a GVW of 14 (17 F350 DRW), so registered it as that, then the combined GCVW is 35k, since my TH is custom and has permenant CA plates. Needed to add max weight of trailer 20k to truck registration to be legal and avoid any CHP issues. I am GVW @ A (14k) CGW @ E (14k + 20k Trailer). Registration hurts!

for you your GVW = A and if your TH has permenant plates your CGW is C (11.5k truck + 10k TH).
 
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Old 07-13-2018, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Clubwagon View Post
I know lots of people in California that tow big gooseneck car haulers with Duallys. All with payloads over 11,500. None have the sticker.
big CHP push this year stopping people. If your trailer has permenant plates you will get stopped, and the fines are huge! If your trailer has annual registration, then you are covered. That is what my CHP neighbor told me.
 
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Old 07-13-2018, 06:55 PM
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thought the only sticker you needed was...

WARNING: This product contains GVWR known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm.
 
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Old 07-14-2018, 02:40 AM
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My 14k GVW truck pulls an 11k GVW fifth wheel. I had to fill out the form that declares the truck as a 14k GVW vehicle. However there is NO sticker that identifies it as such. I was instructed to NOT check the box on the form that declares the truck is a commercial vehicle for hire.

What you really need to know is that if your trailer is over 10k but less than 15k lbs GVW, you will need a recreational trailer endorsement on your license know to the DMV as "Restriction 41".

You will need to take a written exam, and if you have not renewed your license within the past 12 mo, you will need to go for a drivers test.

if you are over 15k lbs GVW on the trailer, you will need a non-commercial Class A license.

I went in to the DMV and got my endorsement. The clerks had no idea what I was applying for. I had to speak to a manager, who then had to look it up. It's a real PITA logistically but now I'm legal FWIW.

I have no plate or sticker to renew, other than the license plate registrations on the truck and the trailer.
 
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Old 07-14-2018, 06:23 AM
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Was reading on another forum (gun related) about the convoluted, confusing process Cali residents have to go through to register their 'assault weapons' and then I read here about the equally convoluted, and confusing process to register your trucks. Sure do wonder why anyone would choose to live in California!
 
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Old 07-14-2018, 07:44 AM
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The 8001 lb. unladen weight gate could be another CA DMV challenge. For example, I could see a heavily-optioned high-trim F350 CCLB 6.7 4x4 tipping the scales at 8001 lbs. or more.

I suspect the 8K and 11.5K weight specs have evolved over the years, but perhaps not keep pace with increases in personal pickup truck weight increases. For example, I considered an F350 SRW CCSB almost 20years ago; it’s 49-state GVWR was 9,900 lbs. The CA spec was 9,700 lbs.

Corresponding specs for an F350 dually were 11,200 and 11,000 lbs.

Regards,
Jim / crewzer
 
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Old 07-14-2018, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by prometheus1351 View Post
Hey guys, I have a question for California people that have trucks with GVWR of 11,500 lbs...

Did you guys fill out a "Declaration of GVW/CGW" form when you purchased your truck? (DMV Form PDF)
Do you have CVRA stickers on your truck or keep them with you?

I'm curious if I'm one of the few to purchase an 11,500 GVWR configuration in California (as opposed to the de-rated 11,400 GVWR). From all my research it looks like I'm supposed to have filled this out and, since I bought my truck to pull a 10K toy hauler I should select weight code B which means I owe the state an EXTRA $447 per year on top of my almost $1,000 yearly registration fee... All for the privilege of pulling my trailer 4 or 5 times a year (maybe a little more). At the time of purchase I felt reasonably comfortable that the 11,500 vs 11,400 was no longer relevant in California. Now that I'm diving in to this again I'm worried I made a pretty costly mistake. Here's what I've learned:

According to the declaration form, all registered owners of commercial motor vehicles operating at 10,001 lbs or more GVW or CGW need to declare the weight it will be operated under. Pickup trucks w/ unladen weight of 8,001 AND a GVWR of 11,499 are excluded from this requirement.

So then people might say, "well you're not operating commercially so it shouldn't apply". I would agree but all trucks in California are considered commercial vehicles. I looked at the "Commercial Vehicles Vehicle Industry Registration Procedures" (DMV PDF). According to this, a "Pickup Truck" is what us normal folks would consider our trucks but only up to UVW 8,001 and GVWR less than 11,500. Since my truck is 11,500 it is therefore considered a "Motor Truck" defined as "a motor vehicle designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property".

The document then goes in to the Commercial Vehicle Registration Act (CVRA) which has to do with that first form I linked above. The CVRA applies to "Motor Trucks" but not "pickup trucks", therefore we would technically need CVRA weight decals and CVRA year stickers and have them displayed on our doors on the left and right side, in addition to the yearly fees based on the maximum weight we're carrying or towing.

So anyway, that's what I've learned. I'm curious to know more information from those of you that have dealt with this or have better knowledge on the subject.

I'd really like to know if the majority of people out there with 11.5K GVWR just ignored this all together or if anyone ever had any issues with the authorities as a result of not having a CVRA sticker or anything like that.

Thanks everyone.
This is my take, but I don't claim to be a DMV expert...

If you have a SRW F350 purchased in CA then you would show an unladen weight below 8,000 lbs, which keeps your truck as a pickup - even with the 11,500 lb GVWR. You would need to fill out the form and note that you don't intend to haul commercially (note: don't confuse a vehicle having commercial plates as the same as being used commercially. All pickups are registered as commercial, but very few are used commercially.). Hauling your own RV (5th wheel or toy hauler) is not a commercial activity. If you haul a gooseneck and deliver freight loads, that is a commercial activity.

So, fill out the form as a pickup, check the "I don't plan to use the truck in a commercial capacity over 10,000 lbs GVWR' option, and you are done. No stickers to put on the door and no CVSA registration.

Now, if you bought your truck out of state and try to register it in CA, they will make you weigh it. It will likely weigh over 8,000 lbs unladen (mine did) and then with an 11,500 lb GWVR it will be considered a Motor Truck (not a pickup). This means stopping at scales, CVSA weight stickers on the sides, etc. It's really silly, and I suspect if you pull into a scale with a SRW F350 with a pickup bed still on it (no flatbed or dump body), they would tell you to take a hike and stop clogging-up the scale.



 
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Old 07-14-2018, 10:33 AM
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I did buy my F-350 KR SRW CCLB 6.7 out-of-state and am in the process of registering it in CA. Took it to the scales last weekend and it weighed-in at 8,000 even (I suspect a fair amount of rounding on the scale for this (relatively) low weight. The truck does have the 11,500 GVWR. All of my use will be non-commercial, so I don't anticipate a problem, but will be completing the registration this week and will learn for sure. I'm not too worried.....
 
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Old 07-14-2018, 10:55 AM
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I'm also a California resident with an F350 SRW. After searching many dealer lots for an F350 that was optioned correctly and had the 11,400lb GVWR package I gave up and ordered a truck that would fit my needs. It seems that the dealers in SoCal do not understand the law and the HUGE benefit to their customers that they could be delivering by ordering trucks with the 11,400 GVWR option. Giving up 100 lbs of theoretical payload in exchange for saving around $300 - $400 a year and not being required to stop at weight scales seems like an essential trade off to me.

That being said, you are correct. Technically trucks with anything over 11,499 GVWR are defined as "motor trucks" here in California and subject to the CVRA (Commercial Vehicle Registration Act). Here is the link to the DMV document that deals with CVRA:

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/co...df?MOD=AJPERES

Also the registration form used when registering your new truck has more information on it:

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/co...df?MOD=AJPERES

Notice at the top it states: Pickup trucks with no body type modifications (e.g., utility bed added, stake, etc.) AND an unladen weight under 8,001 AND a GVWR of 11,499 and under are excluded (from the CVRA.) Unfortunately 11,500 is just 1 pound too many and subjects you to the CVRA.

Another post had suggested that the unladen weight of our trucks is very close to if not over 8,000 and while this is true (my truck scaled at 7820), Ford uses "Fake Math" that somehow allows them to manufacture the vehicle with an unladen weight around 7200 lbs (I believe).
Unless you are registering a vehicle from outside of California then the DMV will not scale your truck and will use the lower Ford spec.

To summarize its relevant applicable rules of the CVRA with a GVWR of 11,500 pounds you must display the weight code decals, stop at all scales, and pay the higher CVRA fees.

For the weight class which applies to an F350 (10,001 - 15,000 lbs) the fee is $332. Also there are higher CHP and county fees when you are under the CVRA.

So you have 5 options:
1. Do absolutely nothing, except paying higher fees, and just risk getting pulled over or sued in the case of an accident (This is what 99% of F350 owners here in Cali and probably what I would do in your situation)
2. Trade in your truck for an F250 or F350 with 11,400 GVWR
3. Comply with the CVRA (Stickers and scales and all that)
4. Move out of state (My house is currently for sale and am moving to AZ here in a month or so)
5. Lobby your representatives for a revision of the CVRA that would be more in line with the pickup trucks offered today. (Good luck with that one)

Best of luck in your decision. I wish the laws were updated to reflect the more modern pickup truck offerings or dealers would order their trucks more in line with whats best for their consumers.
 
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Old 07-14-2018, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by CopterPilot View Post
I'm also a California resident with an F350 SRW. After searching many dealer lots for an F350 that was optioned correctly and had the 11,400lb GVWR package I gave up and ordered a truck that would fit my needs. It seems that the dealers in SoCal do not understand the law and the HUGE benefit to their customers that they could be delivering by ordering trucks with the 11,400 GVWR option. Giving up 100 lbs of theoretical payload in exchange for saving around $300 - $400 a year and not being required to stop at weight scales seems like an essential trade off to me.

That being said, you are correct. Technically trucks with anything over 11,499 GVWR are defined as "motor trucks" here in California and subject to the CVRA (Commercial Vehicle Registration Act). Here is the link to the DMV document that deals with CVRA:

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/co...df?MOD=AJPERES

Also the registration form used when registering your new truck has more information on it:

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/co...df?MOD=AJPERES

Notice at the top it states: Pickup trucks with no body type modifications (e.g., utility bed added, stake, etc.) AND an unladen weight under 8,001 AND a GVWR of 11,499 and under are excluded (from the CVRA.) Unfortunately 11,500 is just 1 pound too many and subjects you to the CVRA.

Another post had suggested that the unladen weight of our trucks is very close to if not over 8,000 and while this is true (my truck scaled at 7820), Ford uses "Fake Math" that somehow allows them to manufacture the vehicle with an unladen weight around 7200 lbs (I believe).
Unless you are registering a vehicle from outside of California then the DMV will not scale your truck and will use the lower Ford spec.

To summarize its relevant applicable rules of the CVRA with a GVWR of 11,500 pounds you must display the weight code decals, stop at all scales, and pay the higher CVRA fees.

For the weight class which applies to an F350 (10,001 - 15,000 lbs) the fee is $332. Also there are higher CHP and county fees when you are under the CVRA.

So you have 5 options:
1. Do absolutely nothing, except paying higher fees, and just risk getting pulled over or sued in the case of an accident (This is what 99% of F350 owners here in Cali and probably what I would do in your situation)
2. Trade in your truck for an F250 or F350 with 11,400 GVWR
3. Comply with the CVRA (Stickers and scales and all that)
4. Move out of state (My house is currently for sale and am moving to AZ here in a month or so)
5. Lobby your representatives for a revision of the CVRA that would be more in line with the pickup trucks offered today. (Good luck with that one)

Best of luck in your decision. I wish the laws were updated to reflect the more modern pickup truck offerings or dealers would order their trucks more in line with whats best for their consumers.
Incorrect, it all depends on what you are towing. Any trailer over 10k with permenant plates and you will need to declare that weight and add it to your trucks registration. If your trailer has annual registration, no need to do anything.

My custom built ToyHauler (20k capacity), has permenant plates (does not qualify as a recreation vechical trailer/camper in CA). Recreation vechical trailers/campers have annual registration in CA and a weight fee associated with that. I had to declare the additional weight (refer to post above on my categories), and got the stickers. Commercial CHP officer lives down the street, he stated DO NOT enter scales (unless you are hauling and getting paid), and keep stickers in glove box, just in case you get pulled over.

Once again, weight of PERMENANT PLATED TRAILER over 10k, you need to fill out the form. If trailer has ANNUAL REGISTRATION, then you are OK!
 
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