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This V10 is horrible

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  #1  
Old 07-07-2018, 02:53 PM
Kai Herrmann
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This V10 is horrible

First trip with the ex pulling my 8k enclosed trailer out West. Lots of long hills and steep mountains. Tires are only 32.6" tall, so 1" taller than stock.
Forget about using OD, I have to lock it out unless I'm going downhill. 3rd gear won't even maintain 65 mph going up long hills, not just mountains,sometimes it'll shift into 2nd at about 48mph and continue to lose speed. It just sucks.
Let's not even mention fuel mileage! 7mpg avg.

I know some guys say changing diff gears helps, but I"m already at 3500+RPM and it can't maintain speed, how many more revs does it need?

What I'm getting at is, are gears really going to solve this problem? I'm at 3000 RPM at about 70 mph in 3rd gear and even on the smallest hills it won't maintain 70mph.
Air filter is new, as are the spark plugs. Truck runs great otherwise.
I need to know if gears will make me happy or if I need to get a diesel EX. Put it this way, if I can't maintain a minimum of 60 mph up any mountain in the US, I won't be happy. I had a diesel before and towing was a non issue so maybe I"m expecting too much here.
 
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Old 07-07-2018, 03:45 PM
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If you have a flat front trailer, then it's like pulling a parachute. I have a Dodge Ram with a V10. I love the engine, but hate the 3.54 rears. I can hook my car trailer and put anything I want on it and pull steep hills with no problem, usually in OD.

Now pulling a camper is a whole other matter. If pulling a flat front camper like the older Fleetwood's and the like, it's a struggle. Downshifting and losing speed. The newer rounded front campers pull almost as well as the car trailer though.

Only so much can be expected from a stock gas engine, and to me this V10 Dodge engine is a pulling son of a gun, but not like a good diesel.
 
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Old 07-07-2018, 04:02 PM
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Change gears if you're keeping it, the v10 will rev much more just fine especially the PI head version. I'm sure Tom will chime in. I'm currently stuffing a Cummins into mine, but I'm one of the guys that believes it should have come with one from the factory. Still, don't expect more than 9mpg towing even with a much taller gear from what I read. If I could go back (after driving Mike rig...awesome btw) I'd have started with a 7.3 I think.
 
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Old 07-07-2018, 04:54 PM
Kai Herrmann
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Originally Posted by yardbird View Post
If you have a flat front trailer, then it's like pulling a parachute. I have a Dodge Ram with a V10. I love the engine, but hate the 3.54 rears. I can hook my car trailer and put anything I want on it and pull steep hills with no problem, usually in OD.

Now pulling a camper is a whole other matter. If pulling a flat front camper like the older Fleetwood's and the like, it's a struggle. Downshifting and losing speed. The newer rounded front campers pull almost as well as the car trailer though.

Only so much can be expected from a stock gas engine, and to me this V10 Dodge engine is a pulling son of a gun, but not like a good diesel.
Mine is a V nose and it's not super high but I definitely know what you're saying. I'd like to keep this truck since it's clean and I just dumped a ton of money and work into it upgrading everything. Talking to some guys on here they say they've never wished they had a diesel and they're pulling heavier that me. Maybe they don't mind crawling up a hill at 45mph?

Originally Posted by thor363 View Post
Change gears if you're keeping it, the v10 will rev much more just fine especially the PI head version. I'm sure Tom will chime in. I'm currently stuffing a Cummins into mine, but I'm one of the guys that believes it should have come with one from the factory. Still, don't expect more than 9mpg towing even with a much taller gear from what I read. If I could go back (after driving Mike rig...awesome btw) I'd have started with a 7.3 I think.
Mileage I'm not as worried about since I only use it to tow and that's only a few times a year. It's the lack of ability going up hills that's frustrating me. How high will these things rev? Mine won't rev more than about 4300 in 2nd gear going up a hill. It'll just sit there until we crest the hill or I let off the gas.
I"ve considered a 12v swap but I kind of don't like working on crap anymore to that degree and I don't want to miss out on trips because the truck is engineless for 6 or 8 months or however long it will take to get the money and parts together.
I know Tom likes his and he tows really heavy. I don't think I've ever asked him though how well he maintains speed going up long hills and steep grades.

 
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Old 07-07-2018, 05:54 PM
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If you haven't already done the y-pipe install and 5 star tunes, do that before you do the rest. Totally different animal after I did mine. It's not a diesel, but towing and overall performance was much improved.
 
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Old 07-07-2018, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by thor363 View Post
If you haven't already done the y-pipe install and 5 star tunes, do that before you do the rest. Totally different animal after I did mine. It's not a diesel, but towing and overall performance was much improved.
Already done. I like the 5 star tunes, they really make the trans act like it has a tow/haul mode. I'd hate to see how they pull bone stock! I sold my Duramax and bought this because we needed more room for long trips but I didn't think it would be this bad. I've driven V10 U haul trucks and it's like a different engine under there. The Uhauls run circles around our Ex's. Then I see these V10 powered RV's pulling Jeeps and they're beating me to the top of the mountains. I"m just frustrated because suddenly it's WORK towing this trailer and it wasn't before.
 
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Old 07-07-2018, 07:15 PM
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I don't like my V-10.....I LOVE IT! But I have done some work to make it a better tow rig because I too was unimpressed with it in it's stock (3.73) form. It serves as a dedicated tow rig for our 11,300lb 12' tall 41' long TT and it does well enough to keep us very happy, we have logged over 37K miles towing either this trailer or the old 31' 9,500lb TH.
In stock trim I towed the TH to/from SC from Philly and saw 6/7 MPG and it would downshift out of OD on the slightest grade, like highway overpasses (or a shadow....) cruising at 65-ish MPH. With a change to 32" tires (only a .4" increase over stock) and a gear change to 4.88s another trip to/from GA (along the same I-95 route most of the way) pulling the same trailer at the same speeds delivered a 9 MPG average and the EX did not downshift out of OD a single time on the highway portion of the trip, like an entirely different truck!
Since then I have added a set of Banks headers to help it breathe better, Custom tunes from 5Star Tuning and 35" tires which reduce the effective ratio to 4.39 and a 4" lift (which hurts the economy a little). With all of these mods in place and running the 89 Octane Performance tune I typically see about 9/9.5 MPG over the same flat-ish routes as the above trips at the same speeds. The tunes really help with trans shift strategy, the stock tune would have it downshift out of OD at 60 MPH at about 45% throttle opening, the 87 Perf tune ups that to about 54% opening and the 89 Perf tune allows nearly 63% opening in that situation before a downshift. The actual Tow tunes will downshift earlier to keep the RPMs up higher and help to hold speed up the grades. But they were too aggressive in downshifting (and the resulting drop in fuel economy) for my style of driving, the Perf tunes fit me very well. I have not pulled with it out West to the real big mountains yet but almost everywhere East of the Mississippi so far and the climbing ability is solid enough to keep me happy, but maybe I'm a little easier to please....... The V-10 is a great motor, Ford agrees with me as they still sell it, but it will never be the equal to a nice diesel in either power/torque or fuel economy. If you are looking for diesel performance from one, you will be disappointed. My EX will pull most Interstate Highway grades here in the East in OD, but I'm willing to allow a little speed to bleed off to keep it in OD to maintain better economy (I'm a Hyper-Miler in real life) and most times I can regain any lost speed if and when I allow it to drop down a gear (I generally only slow to 55/60 before I make it downshift), in 3rd gear at 60 MPH and 65%-ish throttle opening (3200-ish RPMs) it is making enough power to accelerate up most grades. It sounds like you are in more of a hurry than I am on trips. Our traveling weight is a minimum of 19,500lbs and up to 1K more on longer trips and I have NEVER gone to wide open throttle while towing with this EX. With my effective 4.39 gears (4.88s with 35.28" tires) I'm turning 2230 RPMs at 65 MPH, when I had the 32" tires and 4.88 gears it spun at 2430 RPMs at 65 MPH and it pulled even stronger of course. If you really don't care about economy and want the tow rig only EX to pull as close to diesel as possible I would say go with 4.88s and hammer down.

Gears are the single best performance upgrade for the V-10.
 
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  #8  
Old 07-07-2018, 07:30 PM
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I just saw you other thread with pictures, those tires do look taller than 33"s, maybe its just the pics but taller than stock rubber only makes your effective gear worse for pulling. What size are they?
The EX looks great by the way, I love that Blue!
 
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Old 07-07-2018, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by WE3ZS View Post
I don't like my V-10.....I LOVE IT! But I have done some work to make it a better tow rig because I too was unimpressed with it in it's stock (3.73) form. It serves as a dedicated tow rig for our 11,300lb 12' tall 41' long TT and it does well enough to keep us very happy, we have logged over 37K miles towing either this trailer or the old 31' 9,500lb TH.
In stock trim I towed the TH to/from SC from Philly and saw 6/7 MPG and it would downshift out of OD on the slightest grade, like highway overpasses (or a shadow....) cruising at 65-ish MPH. With a change to 32" tires (only a .4" increase over stock) and a gear change to 4.88s another trip to/from GA (along the same I-95 route most of the way) pulling the same trailer at the same speeds delivered a 9 MPG average and the EX did not downshift out of OD a single time on the highway portion of the trip, like an entirely different truck!
Since then I have added a set of Banks headers to help it breathe better, Custom tunes from 5Star Tuning and 35" tires which reduce the effective ratio to 4.39 and a 4" lift (which hurts the economy a little). With all of these mods in place and running the 89 Octane Performance tune I typically see about 9/9.5 MPG over the same flat-ish routes as the above trips at the same speeds. The tunes really help with trans shift strategy, the stock tune would have it downshift out of OD at 60 MPH at about 45% throttle opening, the 87 Perf tune ups that to about 54% opening and the 89 Perf tune allows nearly 63% opening in that situation before a downshift. The actual Tow tunes will downshift earlier to keep the RPMs up higher and help to hold speed up the grades. But they were too aggressive in downshifting (and the resulting drop in fuel economy) for my style of driving, the Perf tunes fit me very well. I have not pulled with it out West to the real big mountains yet but almost everywhere East of the Mississippi so far and the climbing ability is solid enough to keep me happy, but maybe I'm a little easier to please....... The V-10 is a great motor, Ford agrees with me as they still sell it, but it will never be the equal to a nice diesel in either power/torque or fuel economy. If you are looking for diesel performance from one, you will be disappointed. My EX will pull most Interstate Highway grades here in the East in OD, but I'm willing to allow a little speed to bleed off to keep it in OD to maintain better economy (I'm a Hyper-Miler in real life) and most times I can regain any lost speed if and when I allow it to drop down a gear (I generally only slow to 55/60 before I make it downshift), in 3rd gear at 60 MPH and 65%-ish throttle opening (3200-ish RPMs) it is making enough power to accelerate up most grades. It sounds like you are in more of a hurry than I am on trips. Our traveling weight is a minimum of 19,500lbs and up to 1K more on longer trips and I have NEVER gone to wide open throttle while towing with this EX. With my effective 4.39 gears (4.88s with 35.28" tires) I'm turning 2230 RPMs at 65 MPH, when I had the 32" tires and 4.88 gears it spun at 2430 RPMs at 65 MPH and it pulled even stronger of course. If you really don't care about economy and want the tow rig only EX to pull as close to diesel as possible I would say go with 4.88s and hammer down.

Gears are the single best performance upgrade for the V-10.
That's what I was looking for. Mileage isn't the greatest concern since I only drive it to tow and that's only a few times a year and only one long trip. 9mpg would be fine with me.
My frustration stems from losing so much speed on even short hills. Some hills in TX and NM had me dropping to 2nd gear and revving to 4200+ just to keep it at 50 mph. NO acceleration was possible until I hit the descent. I hate getting passed by semi trucks going up slight grades but I had a diesel before so I'm not accustomed to that.
I have tunes from 5 star and I like the tow tunes. I"m on the 87 tow tune and it almost feels like a tow haul mode which is nice. Even so, I have to run foot to the floor the entire time which is exhausting. I"ll lift going downhilll to let it shift but on the flats it's back to full throttle. I just want to maintain 70mph on flats in OD. A loss to 65 mph on steep hills is ok since I know it's not a diesel. I"ll take 58-60 on the biggest mountains. I just don't want to be in 2nd gear at 45 mph with semi trucks passing me.

I've driven U haul trucks with the V10 and they run circles around my EX. I guess they have a steeper axle gear though and they have the 5 or 6 speed trans. I even see those big RV's towing Jeeps with the V10 and they're passing me going up hill!

I just want to make sure before I spend the money that it's going to be acceptable for how I like to tow. Otherwise I'll sell it and find a diesel EX. Just trying to stay away from diesels due to high repair costs which is a factor since all diesel EX's are old and have high miles. Towing as it is now is exhausting for me and the truck. When I had my previous diesel, I could set the cruise at 70 and drive with one hand and never worry about it. I'ts a tough transition!
Thanks for your input.
 
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Old 07-07-2018, 08:35 PM
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Nothing against a V10 but if your expecting Deisel towing power from a gas itís not going to happen. Find a nice 6.0 and never look back. I pull right around 10 000lbs with mine and it handles it good and thatís with 35Ē rubber and stock gears.
 
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Old 07-07-2018, 08:48 PM
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The v10 revs high. you can hit 4500 or more. Do not be afraid to use those rev's!! Downshift into 2nd and do not be afraid of the roar of the engine. Some people are really shy of that. You'll get used to it. The V10 was made to rev. Without a better gear ratio, keep it out of OD when in any hills. When you see a hill coming, hit the gas to the floor before you get to the hill and let it kick down a gear to give that boost of power. With better gears, you will rev high, but it will stay in gear. Far less hunting between OD and 3rd.. MUCH better performance coming onto the highway.
 
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Old 07-07-2018, 09:16 PM
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Since you already did the y-pipe and 5 star, nothing else will help like a set of deeper gears.
 
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Old 07-08-2018, 09:12 AM
Kai Herrmann
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Originally Posted by J ballan View Post
Nothing against a V10 but if your expecting Deisel towing power from a gas itís not going to happen. Find a nice 6.0 and never look back. I pull right around 10 000lbs with mine and it handles it good and thatís with 35Ē rubber and stock gears.
Yeah I know it's not a diesel, I've been in diesel trucks for the last 10 years so that's what I'm comparing to unfortunately. I don't want a 6.0 and all the 7.3s have too many miles on them for the money people want out of them. I just want it to maintain at least 60 going up the hills. All the Ex diesels are old enough now that they're going to need work at any given time and I'm done with diesel repair costs which is why I went with the V10 to begin with. I do all my own work and still don't wnat to own one because they're so much more time consuming.
Originally Posted by housedad View Post
The v10 revs high. you can hit 4500 or more. Do not be afraid to use those rev's!! Downshift into 2nd and do not be afraid of the roar of the engine. Some people are really shy of that. You'll get used to it. The V10 was made to rev. Without a better gear ratio, keep it out of OD when in any hills. When you see a hill coming, hit the gas to the floor before you get to the hill and let it kick down a gear to give that boost of power. With better gears, you will rev high, but it will stay in gear. Far less hunting between OD and 3rd.. MUCH better performance coming onto the highway.
Mine won't rev that high under load at WOT. I lock out OD unless I'm going downhill for a long time or on a flat section, which there aren't many of out West. I had a few hills where it was in 2nd, WOT and wouldn't rev past about 4250.
Originally Posted by thor363 View Post
Since you already did the y-pipe and 5 star, nothing else will help like a set of deeper gears.
That's what I'm thinking, just wanted to make sure they'd give me what I"m looking for before I dump the money into it.
 
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Old 07-08-2018, 06:23 PM
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You really do have a great looking truck. I think Tom mentioned before that he only re-geared the rear end, so if you just try the 4.88's in the rear before going front and rear, you can at least see if it makes you happy without breaking the bank.
 
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Old 07-08-2018, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by KY60 View Post
You really do have a great looking truck. I think Tom mentioned before that he only re-geared the rear end, so if you just try the 4.88's in the rear before going front and rear, you can at least see if it makes you happy without breaking the bank.
That's true, I have the front 4.88 axle sitting and waiting but I'm pretty lazy and just haven't gotten around to it just yet...........I guess I'm just waiting until I need ball joints or unit bearings on the 3.73 front axle, then I'll be motivated enough to finish the swap!
 
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